If You Tanks Can't Handle Your Oversized Pulls...

[Lemuria]

As a Paladin, I make sure that I never pull more than I can keep aggro on. But lately, I've been getting pressure from DDs to pull bigger. To the extent that some of them will run ahead of the party, pull more monsters, and bring them back to me, expecting me to pull the additional monsters off them.

I don't.

This echoes everything I've ever experienced as a tank, be it Paladin or Warrior. I'm constantly moaned at to make bigger pulls, and then those same people will moan when the resulting crowd turns out to be 'too big'. I've even had DPS get frustrated with smaller pulls and grab the next group of enemies, with the expectation I'll keep them alive. Respect is a two way street. If you want it, you need to show some as well.

I think this is probably at least one reason why tanks these days are making bigger and bigger pulls. We practically feel it's expected of us, and whether or not we're capable doesn't even factor any more.

[Numenor1379]

The corallary to Tanks setting the pace, is that Healers get the final veto over how things are run. If the Healer doesn't want to do something, the Tank should be thinking long and hard over how far they want to push the person keeping them alive.

[Fornix]

The corallary to Tanks setting the pace, is that Healers get the final veto over how things are run. If the Healer doesn't want to do something, the Tank should be thinking long and hard over how far they want to push the person keeping them alive.

If the healer is sufficiently geared, but simply chooses to slack in an expert roulette, the healer can expect a vote kick.

[Marael]

I don't tank in this game. I've done my time in other games, and frankly just don't care for it anymore. I do love being a healer in this game, especially on scholar because it's a bit more fun and nuanced than white mage, and more capable, I've found, of healing larger pulls than white mage is. I see gigantic pulls as a fun challenge, and usually the bigger the better for me. But I'm also realistic, if I'm with a tank that doesn't feel comfortable doing it, or DPS that aren't really suited to large AoE damage, I don't urge the party to go bigger. I usually tell the party up front I'm willing to go big or small or anything in between so that the tank knows what I'm capable of before he sets to work doing his thing. A little communication goes a long way. I do have a lot of respect for a tank that is able to keep 12ish mobs on him at all times amidst chain healing and spammed AoEs, I don't imagine I could do it even half as well were I to try, but I have had my share of overambitious tanks too. Sometimes I can pull the party through with hate bouncing around, sometimes not. I'm certainly not perfect, and I don't expect others to be either. But I do expect a tank to know his limits and gauge what he can do accordingly instead of banking on me being some kind of miracle healer. What really gets me is on the sometimes not, when the party does wipe, and it was because the tank was unable to keep control for whatever reason, and then makes the exact same pull over again. I mean, seriously? We just died horribly doing that, and you do it again? Really? In what universe does that make sense? Anyone can make a mistake and overextend themselves a bit too far, with those people I'm polite and I'll joke about it and have fun, because that's what a game is supposed to be, fun, even when you fail the first time. The people who don't learn from it the first time and need a second lesson in reality are the ones I tend to get nasty with. I've been kicked once or twice for telling a tank he's not good enough to pull so much, and I've seen other pt members kick tanks for not accepting the fact.

But yeah, know your limits, communicate with your healer, size up your DPS, and by all means let them die like the idiots they are if they run ahead and pull more than you deem appropriate with the party makeup.

[Zumi]

The 3 new 2.4 dungeons restrict your ability to make big pulls. In almost any case you can only pull 2 trash groups at once which is never enough to kill a properly geared tank. There is always some key/door/pathway that is blocked off till the trash is dead.

So honestly there shouldn't be any big deal at all I have never even came close to dying in a 2.4 dungeon on trash.

[Ronyx]

LOL Its not always the tanks fault! Usually if the tanks pull A LOT its because he had do so before. So you could have a weak healer who cant keep up with the damage and you can also have a one or a pair of weak DPS that cant kill the horde fast enough for the tank to survive or the healer to have MP. I see parties take the whole Brayflox horde in like 20 seconds while with weak dps take around 2-5 mins.

[Laerune]

So glad someone made a thread about this, I have not done any HM before 2.4, so I was not used to the whole Speed Running madness that some players do. In 2.4 I noticed that tanks would go grab alot of packs, before I could cast Protection and Stoneskin on him and the rest of our group. Tanks also never look at the gear of the other players, the i110 players might be able to burn those mobs fast, but the i80 sure as hell dont.

Anyway, I always ask the tank to stop Speed Running, if I think I or the dps are not able to do the job. In most cases the tank ignores my plea, so I let him die. At the end it either ends with him going slower so we can do dps at a good pace or he leaves the group cursing our future offsprings.

[Marisela]

don't let others force you into pulling more than you can handle. If they don't like it, too damn bad.

I have seen healer, dps try to pull more to the tank in hoping the tank would pick them up and force them to pull more. There is always 2 side to the story. Most tank are being pressure to pull more. Right now everytime in dungeon with a Tank, I see the DPS try to pull more to the tank. And when they died, they rage at the tank and tell him he's a bad tank and should flash more, etc. As PUG it isn't perfects, you have to be ready it won't always be perfect if you duty finder with pug for dungeon.

[Delorean]

I actually do what has been asked here unless I genuinely believe that there is no way that the healer is as incompetent as they say. Which so far, has yielded nothing but success.

However.... The DPS sometimes... I just tried to get a bunch of monsters in Halatali a few hrs ago and this Dragoon was like fk ur big pull, im killin this peiste hahahaaa

But honestly if I ever die in a dungeon, 9/10 times it will be the healer's fault. You don't pop ToB and Vengance and then just fall over dead too fast to be healed. But foreal? I'm just here to get shit done

its a waste of time, effort and emotion to get worked up at someone over not being able to do something they should be able to do in trivial content. I'm just tryna get my sols. Don't need none of this back and forth blame game

[Animarelic]

Every pull is determinate on the Healer & DPS' overall ilv and ability. I've had ilv 90 healers & DPS handle a 6 pull just fine and I've had ilv 110 healers & DPS who couldn't handle it which is a CLEAR reminder; some players JUST play the job and some players actually PLAY the job.

I won't force any Healer or DPS into a fight they can't keep up with. As a tank it is your job to make the final assessment on how the pace of the dungeon goes and do it accordingly, though you can't always please everyone including yourself.