Bard needs some love too.

[DoctorPepper]

If there is no Bard, then the next best composition is NIN/MNK/MNK/caster. You can only use Goad on 1 Monk, who do you choose?

Goad is only on a 3 minute cooldown, all you would need to do is alternate between the 2 mnks and they should never run out of TP if they are using invigorate off cd. The only way they would is if the ninja sucks and forgets to use it, so your point is moot here.

At the end of the day, BRD only needs to ballad if people are dying or the healers really suck.

So the only edge that BRD gets over NIN at this point would be foes for the (usually) 1 caster in the group and the ability to save a dying party. Big Woop.

Nin also gets trick attack for a raidwide 10% dmg increase which in my opinion trumps foes as well since most groups typically go with 1 caster these days

Too low for what, exactly? It's good enough for groups that go for world firsts.

Lucrezia had a bard for their T13 WF.
BG had 2 for their T9 WF.

I think you're missing the point, nobody is saying you can't use a BRD because their dps is too low. They're saying the gap between the lowest dps and second lowest dps is getting bigger, mainly because gear scaling sucks for brd, but also because other jobs are being or have been buffed. BRD is still perfectly viable for all fights, especially if the BRD is good, but the gap will only get larger as time goes on.

[CGMidlander]

I think you're missing the point, nobody is saying you can't use a BRD because their dps is too low. They're saying the gap between the lowest dps and second lowest dps is getting bigger, mainly because gear scaling sucks for brd, but also because other jobs are being or have been buffed. BRD is still perfectly viable for all fights, especially if the BRD is good, but the gap will only get larger as time goes on.

Why would that matter though?

Everything between the highest DPS (MNK) and lowest DPS (BRD) is just fluff as far as content balance is concerned. (i.e. Bosses will be weak enough for parties with bards to kill properly, but not weak enough for monk parties to cheese.)

[DoctorPepper]

Why would that matter though?

Everything between the highest DPS (MNK) and lowest DPS (BRD) is just fluff as far as content balance is concerned. (i.e. Bosses will be weak enough for parties with bards to kill properly, but not weak enough for monk parties to cheese.)

Using that logic, why does it matter that DRG isn't up to par with MNK or NIN?

Why does it matter that BLM wasn't up to par with SMN/DRG before their buff?

Why does it matter that PLD flash didn't give as much enmity as overpower prior to their buff?

The only answer I can give you is balance. BRD was 100-150 dps lower than the other DPS classes pre-2.4 which is already a massive gap (approximately 25% lower dps) and that gap is not getting any smaller I assure you. I can't give you up to date data at this point since people are not geared up in the new stuff yet.

People seem to think that the request is for BRD to become the highest dps in the game but the fact is, most bards are fine with being the lowest dps job. They are not fine with being the lowest by 25% or higher which is the case at the moment.

[Exstal]

The only answer I can give you is balance. BRD was 100-150 dps lower than the other DPS classes pre-2.4 which is already a massive gap (approximately 25% lower dps) and that gap is not getting any smaller I assure you. I can't give you up to date data at this point since people are not geared up in the new stuff yet.

In what alternate reality is this true?

[DoctorPepper]

In what alternate reality is this true?

The reality where other dps in the raid group are equally geared and are playing their jobs properly, what do you want me to say? I've seen enough parse data to call that the average. Feel free to post some opposing data if you have any but I'm not going to go digging for parses just to prove you wrong so suit yourself. I'm open to new data but right now I'm calling it based on my own observations so go ahead and enlighten me.

[LunarEmerald]

In what alternate reality is this true?

Yeah. Bard dps is about 50 lower.

[CGMidlander]

Using that logic, why does it matter that DRG isn't up to par with MNK or NIN?

Why does it matter that BLM wasn't up to par with SMN/DRG before their buff?

Why does it matter that PLD flash didn't give as much enmity as overpower prior to their buff?

The only answer I can give you is balance. BRD was 100-150 dps lower than the other DPS classes pre-2.4 which is already a massive gap (approximately 25% lower dps) and that gap is not getting any smaller I assure you. I can't give you up to date data at this point since people are not geared up in the new stuff yet.

People seem to think that the request is for BRD to become the highest dps in the game but the fact is, most bards are fine with being the lowest dps job. They are not fine with being the lowest by 25% or higher which is the case at the moment.

DRG has lesser damage and an absence of utility.
BRD does not lack utility, and has a place in pretty much any party as a result.

BLM's damage buff was not strictly necessary, but helped shore up BLM's damage in movement-heavy scenarios. (Which BRDs are not affected by, btw) It also came with a change to Apoctastasis, making it actually useful.

[RiceisNice]

,,,

While I'd agree that bard is a bit behind compared to other dps classes, I can attest the difference isn't that huge. I've never seen my damage output lag that far behind in any encounter that wasn't T8, less every single party I've been in had shmucks.

[Ooshima]

1. Good Healers don't need Ballad
2. On single target Foe is worse damage buff than TA - 10% damage up for 30% uptime for mages only VS 10% damage up for 16.7% uptime for everyone in party
3. Goad is just good enough to prevent 1 melee from beeing TP staved, so if you have only MNK/DRG melee than you don't need a BRD.

Ok. Thanks for letting us know.

Ah, FYI - good bards don't need buffs to be top DPS.

You're welcome.

HAHAHA

Staisy Chan (Felessan) you again, that dude in the DPS subforums who says that BRD can't exceed 400DPS on dummy without IL115 weapon

Go tell all the top teams around the worlds and your server that their healers doesn't need Ballad during progression, and if they need, they suck. They would probably give you the big middle finger.

[Rose-Wild]

HAHAHA

Staisy Chan (Felessan) you again, that dude in the DPS subforums who says that BRD can't exceed 400DPS on dummy without IL115 weapon

Go tell all the top teams around the worlds and your server that their healers doesn't need Ballad during progression, and if they need, they suck. They would probably give you the big middle finger.

I'm not going to go as far to say that heals needing ballad suck but my static is far from the best and my heals never needed mana in our t1o and t11 kills.

Like some people mentioned it's a matter of not having your people die all the time so they don't waste mana on raising people.

As far for the guy telling me that i was calling people trolls for no reason i actually gave reasons for each one of them and all where speaking nonsense and where proven wrong.

Like the frozen parser or the guy that clearly had no idea about t12.


Then we have more people that obviously din't read my op and just come to say that i want to be top dps when it's far from that and the stuff i sudggest woudln't change that much. It would be like 10 or + 20 dps and that's our natural dps that we lose by the use of Songs.

What's even more funny it's people coming to tell me how Bard is ment to be played when they have 0 experience in raid content. Most of them with like not even t9 down and me being Bard since release. And extrapolating my demand when they don't realise that's not even that big of a buff.