Bard needs some love too.

[Felessan]

Bards who only look at their DPS numbers to judge if their job needs a buff or not might as well go play another class, 'cause clearly they are not suited to be Bards.

The problem with bards that they have just too low DPS for their "utility".
It was more or less fine without NIN, but with NIN introduced - they just wipe all those little advantages BRD brings into the party and still have much higher dps.
BRD is better on AOE heavy fight... otherwise NIN have better than BRD damage buff, can regen TP too and ballad is rarely useful, so no real "utility" advantage for bard.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

The problem with bards that they have just too low DPS for their "utility".
It was more or less fine without NIN, but with NIN introduced - they just wipe all those little advantages BRD brings into the party and still have much higher dps.
BRD is better on AOE heavy fight... otherwise NIN have better than BRD damage buff, can regen TP too and ballad is rarely useful, so no real "utility" advantage for bard.

I am not sure what content you are basing your observations on, but I fail to see how NIN can compensate a lack of BRD in a progression static.

Foe's Requiem, Ballad, TP song are still extremely useful in tight fights where DPS and Healing checks are present. Goad is not even remotely as powerful as TP song, by the way.

Point is, it's not like EVERY job can be top dps. BRD, as one of the jobs with most utility, can't really ask for that.

[Seiryuukishi]

I won't lie and say I don't notice ups and downs in my output but truthfully that's normal for any dps. Hell, I only recently decided to fulltime main Bard and it isnt anywhere near as geared as it should be. I still pull hate from tanks far better geared than me and they aren't even doing it wrong. It's more about cooldown management and situational awareness than simply running in and firing away and expecting those same numbers. I know that's not what you mean, still... There has to be a balance otherwise better than half the populace gets the shaft, pun intended. We get mobility, versatile utility, and better than average dps without being pinned down by positionals. I'd say we are pretty dang blessed actually. Some things could be tweeked certainly but I would need to spend more time paying attention to each skill's ups and downs. Just my two gil.

[Casper]

This thread is such a f****ing joke. Bard is OP as hell. It is the single one DPS you can not go without.

And comparing Goad to TP song is a joke too. Goad allow to make it so that you can wait a bit more before having to use TP song on long fight with no downtime by hitting the first tp starved person, so you can hopefully find a better time to sing, but the bard will have to sing like a canary, goad or not.

And yeah, Foe requiem is very important too. But the real deal breaker is Ballad, as the whole healing stuff is balanced currently around it. No matter how you look at it, you are not going to accomplish anything relevant without a good bard. You can go without a nin, a mnk, a drg, a blm or a smn. You can not go without a brd.

Also dps wise, they are, from my experience, 0 to 10% behind best dps in any fight that is not a dummy (so no t8). They pay almost nothing for their mandatory utility.

If anything, Brd would need a slight nerf, or the game should be balanced in a way that does not literally revolve around them.

[Felessan]

Foe's Requiem, Ballad, TP song are still extremely useful in tight fights where DPS and Healing checks are present. Goad is not even remotely as powerful as TP song, by the way.

1. Good Healers don't need Ballad
2. On single target Foe is worse damage buff than TA - 10% damage up for 30% uptime for mages only VS 10% damage up for 16.7% uptime for everyone in party
3. Goad is just good enough to prevent 1 melee from beeing TP staved, so if you have only MNK/DRG melee than you don't need a BRD.

[CGMidlander]

The problem with bards that they have just too low DPS for their "utility".
It was more or less fine without NIN, but with NIN introduced - they just wipe all those little advantages BRD brings into the party and still have much higher dps.
BRD is better on AOE heavy fight... otherwise NIN have better than BRD damage buff, can regen TP too and ballad is rarely useful, so no real "utility" advantage for bard.

Too low for what, exactly? It's good enough for groups that go for world firsts.

Lucrezia had a bard for their T13 WF.
BG had 2 for their T9 WF.

[DoctorPepper]

If there is no Bard, then the next best composition is NIN/MNK/MNK/caster. You can only use Goad on 1 Monk, who do you choose?

Goad is only on a 3 minute cooldown, all you would need to do is alternate between the 2 mnks and they should never run out of TP if they are using invigorate off cd. The only way they would is if the ninja sucks and forgets to use it, so your point is moot here.

At the end of the day, BRD only needs to ballad if people are dying or the healers really suck.

So the only edge that BRD gets over NIN at this point would be foes for the (usually) 1 caster in the group and the ability to save a dying party. Big Woop.

Nin also gets trick attack for a raidwide 10% dmg increase which in my opinion trumps foes as well since most groups typically go with 1 caster these days

Too low for what, exactly? It's good enough for groups that go for world firsts.

Lucrezia had a bard for their T13 WF.
BG had 2 for their T9 WF.

I think you're missing the point, nobody is saying you can't use a BRD because their dps is too low. They're saying the gap between the lowest dps and second lowest dps is getting bigger, mainly because gear scaling sucks for brd, but also because other jobs are being or have been buffed. BRD is still perfectly viable for all fights, especially if the BRD is good, but the gap will only get larger as time goes on.

[Sleigh]

This thread has to be a troll thread. BRD's damage is balanced around it giving Foe's Requiem to casters to make up for its lower training dummy DPS, and its extremely high uptime on both boss and adds alike. Most movement heavy mechanics you can give to your BRD with minimal/no DPS loss. You really need TP song in the new coil, every fight is 10m+ of almost no breaks. You can easily need MP song currently too; it's true in 2.3 MP song became worthless as we overgeared everything, but now we're undergeared, and sometimes healers have to go HAM.

WAR deserved a buff, it wasn't getting used. BLM deserved a buff, it wasn't getting used. DRG deserves a buff, it's not getting used. BRD ... I'd nerf it before buffing it, if I had to choose one.

[Black91CRX]

Bard is OP as hell.

Now that, is a joke...

[CGMidlander]

I think you're missing the point, nobody is saying you can't use a BRD because their dps is too low. They're saying the gap between the lowest dps and second lowest dps is getting bigger, mainly because gear scaling sucks for brd, but also because other jobs are being or have been buffed. BRD is still perfectly viable for all fights, especially if the BRD is good, but the gap will only get larger as time goes on.

Why would that matter though?

Everything between the highest DPS (MNK) and lowest DPS (BRD) is just fluff as far as content balance is concerned. (i.e. Bosses will be weak enough for parties with bards to kill properly, but not weak enough for monk parties to cheese.)