Extend Classes into full Jobs?

[Bishop81]

Being similar is one thing. Being carbon copies is another.

As I said, I don't see why you can't. Every player who plays a SMN is a carbon copy of each other any way.

Because you run into issues with reduntancy. Jobs are basically specializations of a class. Having more of them creates issues with balance. If each job needs to have a basic amount of equal representation, and the content needs to be done in such a way that all jobs are relevant, having fewer of them, makes things more simple.

And this "redundancy" is bad how?

Why would having more "similar" classes create balance issues? They are similar ...

[Exstal]

As I said, I don't see why you can't. Every player who plays a SMN is a carbon copy of each other any way.

You can't see because you're not looking hard enough. There is something that is a waste of time, that's making classes that play exactly the same as each other.

SMN and SCH play the same way when SCH is DPSing. That's why SCH's primary function is not a DPS. That's what differentiates it from SMN. What is NIN compared to THF, if it were to just be an extension of ROG? It would play exactly the same as THF but with the ninjitsu ability. Aside from "feelings", there is not a single sensible reason to double up on the same class being the same role.

This topic has been beat to death, but it's because you're new here you don't seem to know just how beaten this horse is.

Read this thread in its entirety and you might understand how much this topic has been discussed.

Thief / Ninja

[Bishop81]

You can't see because you're not looking hard enough. There is something that is a waste of time, that's making classes that play exactly the same as each other.

...

Let's SE determine what is and isn't a waste of their time.

The game isn't only about "functionality". A NIN isn't a ROG and a ROG isn't a NIN.

If they do extend classes into full Jobs, what makes you think they won't add Job specific abilities to "differentiate" the 2 jobs?

Also, again, so what if they are similar mechanics-wise?

If you really want to "not waste time", might as well just have "fighter", "thief", "priest" and "wizard", then call it a day.

[Malevicton]

Let's SE determine what is and isn't a waste of their time.

Sounds good. They think THF is a waste of time. That was easy.

[Exstal]

Let's SE determine what is and isn't a waste of their time.

It's not up to SE. It's a matter of redundancy.

The game isn't only about "functionality". A NIN isn't a ROG and a ROG isn't a NIN.

If they do extend classes into full Jobs, what makes you think they won't add Job specific abilities to "differentiate" the 2 jobs?

When 95% of your base class is using the exact same skills and combos, the only way to make them different is to have a different role for the second job. So unless you want Thief healer/tank for Rogue, probably not going to happen.

Also, again, so what if they are similar mechanics-wise?

Redundancy.

If you really want to "not waste time", might as well just have "fighter", "thief", "priest" and "wizard", then call it a day.

A wonderful strawman.

[Bishop81]

It's not up to SE. It's a matter of redundancy.

My point is, so what if there is redundancy?

How is that harmful to the game? I have asked this many times, but no one has given me a satisfactory answer.

[Exstal]

My point is, so what if there is redundancy?

How is that harmful to the game? I have asked this many times, but no one has given me a satisfactory answer.

It's harmful because it's an inefficient allocation of developer time. They could make ROGv2, GLAv2, or whatever. But what does that accomplish? You're not creating a whole new feel of class. You're creating GLA with different skills to PLD. That's is not a good investment of time when you can creat DRK from a different class which will play vastly different from GLA (which is what they are doing)

By your logic, adding Jobs at all was redundant. They share almost all of the abilities of their base class[1]. SE had to add extra abilities and a stat boost to differentiate them.

Thus I don't see how extending Classes into full Jobs by adding extra abilities that other Jobs won't get and a stat boost is any different.

It will be like, you play an ACN to 30, at which point you can,

• continue with ACN as a Job and get your own unique set of abilities and the stat boost or
• you can pick SMN or SCH with their own unique abilities and the stat boosts.

[1] They could have just added Flare to THM and called it a day.

You're very good at misunderstanding the logic. I'll make it as simple as possible.

Class A has 3 abilities called 1, 2, and 3.
Ability 1 flows into ability 2 which flows into ability 3.
It branches in Job A.
Job A adds 2 abilities E and F.
Class A's rotation is this; 1-2-3-1-2-3 (repeat)
Job A's rotation is this: 1-2-3-E-1-2-3-F (repeat)

You want to add job B. Same role as job A.
Job B adds 2 abilities G and H
Job B's rotation is this: 1-2-3-G-H-1-2-3 (repeat)

This is how ARR works right now. Jobs just give some kind of iconic look to the classes but in the end it's just <class> with some new flashy moves. It's easily demonstrated by how DPS SCH and SMN play (hint: it's almost the exact same).

Jobs were added because Hiromichi Tanaka, original director of FFXIV, was going to just have classes but then when Naoki Yoshida took over they were added ontop of the classes. It was to give people the "Final Fantasy" feel by having jobs fans of the series would recognize.

[Bishop81]

This is how ARR works right now. Jobs just give some kind of iconic look to the classes but in the end it's just <class> with some new flashy moves. It's easily demonstrated by how DPS SCH and SMN play (hint: it's almost the exact same).

Jobs were added because Hiromichi Tanaka, original director of FFXIV, was going to just have classes but then when Naoki Yoshida took over they were added ontop of the classes. It was to give people the "Final Fantasy" feel by having jobs fans of the series would recognize.

Oh!!! It's now about "iconic look" and "'Final Fantasy' feel"!

And all this time I thought you only cared about "function", "redundancy" and " inefficient allocation of developer time". /rolleyes

[Cadwgan]

My point is, so what if there is redundancy?

How is that harmful to the game? I have asked this many times, but no one has given me a satisfactory answer.

Sorry for butting in here but it's been stated multiple times by Yoshida and the dev team that if it doesn't play sufficiently differently they're not adding it, there is literally no point in having two jobs play the same. A lot of jobs fill the same role but PLD doesn't play like WAR, DRG not like MNK, SMN not like BLM, WHM not like SCH, etc, they all perform the same basic function but play sufficiently different to justify being a separate entity.

[Bishop81]

Sorry for butting in here but it's been stated multiple times by Yoshida and the dev team that if it doesn't play sufficiently differently they're not adding it, there is literally no point in having two jobs play the same. A lot of jobs fill the same role but PLD doesn't play like WAR, DRG not like MNK, SMN not like BLM, WHM not like SCH, etc, they all perform the same basic function but play sufficiently different to justify being a separate entity.

ACN (the Job) doesn't have to play like SMN.

They could go with what they initially planned for ACN - sort of. Have AoE spells with patterns on the ground with all sort of effects.

ACN lore is all about tactics. SMN lore is all about ... Primal summons.

I can see an ACN Job that uses Carbuncles to lay "magic patterns" on the ground then the ACN exploits those patterns for damage or whatever

or

extend the Carbuncles' abilities to do crowd control (in addition to their current damage) allowing them to move mobs into specific patterns which the ACN's abilities will take advantage of

- i.e. the Carbies do set up, the ACN knocks in the blows.