Goad

[Jamillion]

No way am I reading 12 pages, but let me just say this if it hasn't been said yet. Ninja is not a support class, we will not guess at your TP. WHM and BLM ask for mages ballad, what makes you any better?

[SeraviEdalborez]

No way am I reading 12 pages, but let me just say this if it hasn't been said yet. Ninja is not a support class, we will not guess at your TP. WHM and BLM ask for mages ballad, what makes you any better?

Good BRDs recognize when to do Ballad without being asked. Make a better analogy if you're trying to make a point.

[Gruntler]

Good BRDs recognize when to do Ballad without being asked. Make a better analogy if you're trying to make a point.

For BLM, it's not possible to look at their mp bar and guess when they'd like Ballad. Oh look a BLM is OOM... meaning nothing.
For WHM, it is, because that's a piece of information you have. You can see their mp consumption, and they don't regenerate it with the push of a button.

Good bards have the information at hand and don't have to guess.

Where is the tank's tp bar again? Right. On the tank's screen. And NO WHERE ELSE.\\


As for the argument 'Ninjas should be familiar with everyone else's usage' if that's true then you should not only be familiar with your own tp usage, you should be in bed with it having a long term affair planning your marriage and honeymoon to Martha's Vineyard. In which case you should ask for Goad, until such a time as the ninja is familiar with YOUR TP usage. Which varies from tank to tank based on their playstyle and skillset. Which Ninjas know, because they've played with multiple tanks.

[LionKing]

Want a better analogy???if you are so clouded to see the difference between Goad and TP song, here:

1/ Bard TP Song: AOE TP generated tool, cost MP and can be prolonged for a long time as long as MP is there, ON/OFF AT WILL and is self-targetable

2/ Goad: Single target TP generated tool, cost 0 MP, and have 3 mins CD, 20sec lasting, non self-targetable.

Goad is a INFERIOR version, at all aspects compared to Brd TP song. Please stop saying Goad is the same as TP song. , and a good Brd know when to TP without being asked and demand the Ninja to be the same. There is LITTLE TO NO drawback for using TP song at ANYTIME of the fight, and there is no need to figure who need TP because TP FOR ALL. There is a HIGHLY FAIR chance that Goad go wasted if used on wrong people at a wrong time of the fight, whilst in some situation, it could mean make or break..

Brd NO NEED to look at every SINGLE individual to know their TP, one click TP FOR ALL and can turn ON/OFF ANYTIME.

The argument of just because a good BRD can use their TP song without asking means that a good Ninja has to be the same is stupid and laughable. Give Goad the same ability as TP song, then demand Ninja to be the same come later.

Part of these argument comes from the fact that Goad could not be used on Ninja, himself. If Goad was actually self-targetable, all these demands are invalid because Ninja could just simply save it for himself.

[Behb]

@lionking : are you serious? bard should avoid tp song at all cost since it reduce damage by 20%!
Goad is far better because only war and monk (so only 2 ppl in most cases) lack TP usually so you can just give them the goad. And goad last 30s not 20s. The cooldown is indeed important but there is no reason to not using it.

[SeraviEdalborez]

And again this circles around to: If your own TP consumption is suffering you should expect everyone else's is too. Unless you're ok with being a vegetable. Which it seems like some people are ok with.

[LionKing]

MNK/Dragoon or Warrior for it matters, all can do with out without Goad. And I am serious for saying thing, unless it is a LONG LONG fight, like in T8, under normal circumstances, none of them should be in a DESPERATELY situation in need of a Goad, not in Normal Duns run, not in COB or any Primal fights, let alone a SR. If any of them found themselves in DESPERATELY need of a Goad, they are OVEREXTENDED themselves. MNK/Dragoon already have Invergorate to cover their TP and War is not needed to use up their TP, just to hold aggro. War has Flas, Steel Cyclone, Infuriate, Berserker+ Overpower, lots, lots of tools in the disposal.

If you gave followed the tread thus far, the counter argument people give out thus far is just because of Brd can do XYZ, they EXPECT AND DEMAND Ninja to do the same without considering Goad is SIGNIFICANTLY INFERIOR to TP song in any aspects.I agree that TP song reduce 20% of Brd attack, but the trade off is MASSIVE, AOE TP generate tools, as long as their is MP, there is TP song, On/Off at will, compares to 3 mins CD, Single target TP generate. On top of everything else, they DEMAND Ninja to observe their TP pool which is impossible to tell unless the Ninja gives their 100% attention to see the skills used,chow many times, calculate the TP cost, etc... while forgetting that BRD's rotation is FAR Far more simple than of the Ninja, so it is coherent to say Brd has FAR FAR more easier time to observe the party TP tool than Ninja.

[SeraviEdalborez]

MNK can certainly make use of the TP from Goad in an extended fight. Prevents/delays having to drop Fracture/ToD from rotation for TP conservation reasons. This doesn't require excessive coordination.

I don't know why you would be so adamant about being stingy about Goad unless you yourself are a lazy or unobservant player. Nobody is saying "be perfect", just that you shouldn't need to be told all the time how to do functions of your job.

[LionKing]

And again this circles around to: If your own TP consumption is suffering you should expect everyone else's is too. Unless you're ok with being a vegetable. Which it seems like some people are ok with.

So, I am saying if my own TP consumption is NOT suffering, then I would expect everyone else's is too? Unless I am ok with being a PRO, better than everyone else in managing my TP. Which it seems like some people have a hard time to cope with?

MNK can certainly make use of the TP from Goad in an extended fight. Prevents/delays having to drop Fracture/ToD from rotation for TP conservation reasons. This doesn't require excessive coordination.

I don't know why you would be so adamant about being stingy about Goad unless you yourself are a lazy or unobservant player. Nobody is saying "be perfect", just that you shouldn't need to be told all the time how to do functions of your job.

SR is NOT extended fight. Any fights except T8 are NOT dummy fight where you have enough time to generate your TP time between the break. And NO MNK use Fracture in a SR fight. And let me tell you, I NEVER need Goad to have my TOD up 100% uptime, EVER. Why you need GOAD to have it or drop it if you are a good MNK?

I don't know why people so lazy to make up a macro to ask for it and click when need Goad unless you are a lazy bunch or just a demand player, en entitle one, think everyone has the responsibility to read your mind or to know what you want without you tell them. Nobody demands perfect but you CAN HELP to make it Perfect by just setting up a SIMPLE macro. Is it so hard??? And do I need to remind you by saying a simple concept of life? " You are not entitle for anything. Nobody can read mind. You want something, you ask for it." Nobody need to tell us how to do our job but YOU NEED TO BE TOLD what are life lessons.

[SeraviEdalborez]

Speedruns aren't extended fights but large enough pulls warrant Arm of the Destroyer over Bootshine or DK, which is an even excessively larger TP drain.

For the record, I can ask for Goad. I'm saying I shouldn't need to all the time. I rather like having a Ninja who doesn't have to be asked.