1.18: Wipe your tears and open your eyes!

[NoctisUmbra]

OP do you honestly think people just go to fight a NM right away, using their old tactics, fail and think ZOMG BROKE instantly without trying to adjust, knowing its changed, and trying countless times? Its basic instinct to adjust.... This community isnt full of retards who cant tie their own shoelace.

and the fact is what you might think works on 1 mob, might not work on another, so you could be blasting through dungeons keeping hate, good for you, why does it work? Because dungeons have been optimized the crap out of with the new enmity and stuff. While every other mob wouldnt have been. Do you think they are going to spend days testing, optimizing and tweaking a couple of nms? Probably did non at all. Take Cacutars for example, they have almost zero hate gains. No matter how hard you try.

People complaining because they all trying different mobs that react differently and their complain should be more about how unbalanced enmity is in the greater sense. Its only balanced for new content.

Actually I recall cactuars having unusual hate patterns prior to 1.18. Different mobs have different hate patterns, yes. I was not saying that I am able to hold hate well in the dungeon and thus hate everywhere is stable. I was commenting that the enmity system is not broken. There are some topics relating to a few specific mobs that seem glitched even - which is a possibility sure. The target of my post is to the people who are, actually, arguing that the enmity system is broken, period. You say the dungeon has optimized enmity, yet a lot of people were arguing the Ogre has broken enmity.

And I also agree with Raim, telling your PT to not do anything for 30+ seconds is very stupid.

To each his own I suppose. I honestly do not see the big deal of such a simple, and very effective strategy. In actuality it may not even last 30 seconds. In fact I just came up with 30 seconds arbitrarily based on a vague memory of how long I estimated it to have taken. The idea is, do not start DPS on the big guy until the tank says he is comfortable with his hate first.

EDIT: Perhaps I should edit the quote in the main post to better reflect the actual message. The arbitrary number appears to be getting more attention than it should, effectively leading to the point of the strategy to be missed.

[viion]

What is broken then is subject to experience, as obvious as that sounds. Its about as stupid conversation as claiming stats were broken prepatch and other people saw blind it wasnt, and now look whats happened lol getting binned and redone. Though was not broken, just not suitable.

The problem I see with your thread is you are attacking the players saying they are doing it wrong, rather than defending the system. That just makes you as bad as them to be honest. And as silly as it sounds, all the evidence your can gripe up to prove it is not broken, could easily be factored to state it is broken. Never ending war!

[NoctisUmbra]

What is broken then is subject to experience, as obvious as that sounds. Its about as stupid conversation as claiming stats were broken prepatch and other people saw blind it wasnt, and now look whats happened lol getting binned and redone. Though was not broken, just not suitable.

The problem I see with your thread is you are attacking the players saying they are doing it wrong, rather than defending the system. That just makes you as bad as them to be honest. And as silly as it sounds, all the evidence your can gripe up to prove it is not broken, could easily be factored to state it is broken. Never ending war!

My intention was never to attack anyone. I apologize if it appears that way. I only wish to enlighten people, and help along players that have difficulty adjusting.

The only part of the post that I would agree might be considered an attack is the very end... but it's only a bit of fun really.

[Phenidate]

While I don't necessarily agree with the 20-30 seconds of no action, its more a preference in tactics than outright opposition.

My preferred approach is a slow ramp up of DPS. Give the tank a few seconds to get his main enmity builds up (as an example, MRD getting their parry buff then setting off key abilities like defender and sunder). After that brief exchange the DPS classes start slow. ARC shouldn't go immediately to their multi-buffed multishot but instead use quelling strike and light shot a few times. Mages with rank 1 of their nukes. Etc.

My reasoning here is a matter of efficiency more than anything else, yes it may be 30 seconds out of a 5 minute fight but its still 30 seconds. You shave that many more seconds between the time the tank runs out of mana to self heal and the CNJ kicks into their own heals and the end of the fight.

[NoctisUmbra]

While I don't necessarily agree with the 20-30 seconds of no action, its more a preference in tactics than outright opposition.

My preferred approach is a slow ramp up of DPS. Give the tank a few seconds to get his main enmity builds up (as an example, MRD getting their parry buff then setting off key abilities like defender and sunder). After that brief exchange the DPS classes start slow. ARC shouldn't go immediately to their multi-buffed multishot but instead use quelling strike and light shot a few times. Mages with rank 1 of their nukes. Etc.

My reasoning here is a matter of efficiency more than anything else, yes it may be 30 seconds out of a 5 minute fight but its still 30 seconds. You shave that many more seconds between the time the tank runs out of mana to self heal and the CNJ kicks into their own heals and the end of the fight.

Again, the 30 seconds was an arbitrary number. I'm never going to be able to escape that am I? lol. It seems I've got to watch my words even more carefully.

That being said, I feel that your preference and mine stretch from the same root idea: giving the tank a hate headstart. Nevertheless, I agree with your approach - in fact I am considering adding it to the main post right under my quote for a hint of variety, given your permission of course.

[Raim]

No, I do not.

It was a viable strategy to be safe rather than sorry before this patch, and is now a more effective strategy. If 20-30 seconds of no DPS drastically increases the chance that I will not lose hate from a boss mob/NM which will take a matter of 5 minutes at least to kill, than I will definitely go with it.

I'm sorry but, I find mindless zerging with everyone in the party constantly attacking at maximum output to "maximize DPS" to be neither enjoyable, nor exciting.

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate how you think a strategic battle should play out?

You need to realize that such a tactic is not employed in any other modern MMORPG, and that 30 seconds of healing even while managing MP properly is a strain on Casters that should not be necessary.

[NoctisUmbra]

You need to realize that such a tactic is not employed in any other modern MMORPG, and that 30 seconds of healing even while managing MP properly is a strain on Casters that should not be necessary.

I'm no longer going to reply to the whole 30 second thing. please reread that section in the main-post as well as some of my earlier comments. I have since adjusted my words to better reflect the point.

[SuzakuCMX]

You need to realize that such a tactic is not employed in any other modern MMORPG

I thought people were against this being streamlined to the point where battle tactics are exactly the same.

and that 30 seconds of healing even while managing MP properly is a strain on Casters that should not be necessary.

Tank heals himself, 30 seconds was hyperbole. Did you read the thread? It's barely 2 pages.

[NoctisUmbra]

30 seconds was hyperbole.

This. Thank you.

I was honestly starting to freak out a little bit with everyone taking the number so literally.

[TripBeaumint]

Great post OP, well thought out and a good read.

Don't let these kids get you down, I imagine they've been wiping for the past 3 days to the ogre.

I'm really really enjoying this patch as well, and I mainly craft! :P