1.18: Wipe your tears and open your eyes!

[Raim]

You need to reevaluate your opinion of SE's abiity to balance hate if you think telling everyone to not attack for 30 seconds at the beginning of a fight is in any way normal.

[NoctisUmbra]

You need to reevaluate your opinion of SE's abiity to balance hate if you think telling everyone to not attack for 30 seconds at the beginning of a fight is in any way normal.

No, I do not.

It was a viable strategy to be safe rather than sorry before this patch, and is now a more effective strategy. If 20-30 seconds of no DPS drastically increases the chance that I will not lose hate from a boss mob/NM which will take a matter of 5 minutes at least to kill, than I will definitely go with it.

I'm sorry but, I find mindless zerging with everyone in the party constantly attacking at maximum output to "maximize DPS" to be neither enjoyable, nor exciting.

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate how you think a strategic battle should play out?

[Raim]

No, I do not.

It was a viable strategy to be safe rather than sorry before this patch, and is now a more effective strategy. If 20-30 seconds of no DPS drastically increases the chance that I will not lose hate from a boss mob/NM which will take a matter of 5 minutes at least to kill, than I will definitely go with it.

I'm sorry but, I find mindless zerging with everyone in the party constantly attacking at maximum output to "maximize DPS" to be neither enjoyable, nor exciting.

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate how you think a strategic battle should play out?

You need to realize that such a tactic is not employed in any other modern MMORPG, and that 30 seconds of healing even while managing MP properly is a strain on Casters that should not be necessary.

[NoctisUmbra]

You need to realize that such a tactic is not employed in any other modern MMORPG, and that 30 seconds of healing even while managing MP properly is a strain on Casters that should not be necessary.

I'm no longer going to reply to the whole 30 second thing. please reread that section in the main-post as well as some of my earlier comments. I have since adjusted my words to better reflect the point.

[SuzakuCMX]

You need to realize that such a tactic is not employed in any other modern MMORPG

I thought people were against this being streamlined to the point where battle tactics are exactly the same.

and that 30 seconds of healing even while managing MP properly is a strain on Casters that should not be necessary.

Tank heals himself, 30 seconds was hyperbole. Did you read the thread? It's barely 2 pages.

[NoctisUmbra]

30 seconds was hyperbole.

This. Thank you.

I was honestly starting to freak out a little bit with everyone taking the number so literally.

[Lerris]

You need to reevaluate your opinion of SE's abiity to balance hate if you think telling everyone to not attack for 30 seconds at the beginning of a fight is in any way normal.

You're right. Mindless zerging is perfectly normal. Which is why I generally stay away from most online games.

You need to realize that such a tactic is not employed in any other modern MMORPG, and that 30 seconds of healing even while managing MP properly is a strain on Casters that should not be necessary.

That's hardly an argument against. Many of us are not thrilled by the way modern MMORPGs do things.

While I mostly agree with this thread, I do have a slight issue with blanketing the enmity/hate system as "perfect" or even "mostly ok". I'll start by saying keeping hate under this system is more than possible - it's actually relatively simple once you adjust to the new system and enmity values associated with abilities.

The problem, in my mind, is that the abilities all GLAs are using to keep hate are *not* GLA abilities. It should not be required that a GLA rank up CON and THM to 48 to get Cure/Sac III (or even Cure/Sac II, despite being relatively small investment of time). Or ranking up LNC to 30 for accomplice. Or MRD in the 40s for Defender II. PUG in the 40s for Taunt II. I made a list of all the abilities I could want as a tank and I literally could not find a class I wouldn't want 42+.

Now, we know class abilities are being adjusted to define more class specific roles but who knows what we'll end up with. Jobs apparently are being restricted from using other class abilities? Or something to that effect.

Classes should be relatively stand-alone, in my eyes. Especially since Yoshi recently said he's hoping to develop a system where 2 hours of gameplay a day for 3-4 months will get a class to rank cap. The idea of having to level 7 classes (or more, when more are released) to cap or near cap to be playing your class effectively is absurd.

Gladiators are not going to be the main tank forever, nor conjurers the main healer. They will presumably be replaced by paladin and white mage, which will probably have better hate control and damage mitigation than a gladiator with appropriate cross-class skills, and more efficient healing skills than a suitably built conjurer. Yoshi said it was a risk to release content before completely overhauling the systems, and that is what we are seeing here. These new battles are designed for specialized characters, and neither conjurer nor gladiator are as specialized as they need to be for a lot of players to succeed.

[Preypacer]

This. Thank you.

I was honestly starting to freak out a little bit with everyone taking the number so literally.

Not surprising to me in the least...

It's all too common in debate/discussion for people to avoid engaging in the larger point being made, by putting their focus, instead, on an individual detail. In this way, they try to change the debate to be about the individual detail, which may be an "easier target" for them, rather than addressing the bigger picture, which they can't so easily (if at all) counter.

It's a kind of red herring attempt, which you basically thwarted by clarifying your use of that number, and not taking the bait .

[Galka75]

This. Thank you.

I was honestly starting to freak out a little bit with everyone taking the number so literally.

Lol. Atm is enought letting thetank hit first the mob one time, rise shield, send one provoke and one phalanx. This one last 5-10 secs? No more. Tested.

Stop complaing about only what you read. Go to the game, log in and play a little please

[Tabion]

You need to realize that such a tactic is not employed in any other modern MMORPG, and that 30 seconds of healing even while managing MP properly is a strain on Casters that should not be necessary.

The thing I don't understand is this: how is it fun or strategic if the tank doesn't have to actually work hard to gain/keep hate above all others? Say, if provoke remained the way it used to be where you get instant hate no matter what. Then it just becomes a mater of how fast your cooldown is on abilities similar to that.

The way it is now [and has been in xi that I liked, but is irrelevant], not only does the tank have to work at keeping the mob's attention, but the rest of the party has to also manage their damage or healing output as to not disrupt the flow of battle. It's a very nice system that keeps everyone working together. If your ARC wants to go guns blazing and ignore whats going on with the rest of the group, he'll die, and maybe take some others with him if what you're fighting happens to have some devastating AoEs. It really shows who knows how to play from who doesn't when you don't rely solely on your tank with the insta-win button.