DRG has been broken for far too long. Fix it SE

[Fayto]

First off: DRG is the easiest job to play IMO

No, it is the hardest of the three melee DPS. Monk and Ninja are tons easier than Dragoon. Also, Dragoons can't come close to us Monks unless we're bad and they play perfectly. Also that is the thing, Dragoon doesn't get rewarded for perfect play. Ninja and Monk gets their power for free, Dragoon has to work for it and still don't deal near DPS.

[RyuDragnier]

No, it is the hardest of the three melee DPS. Monk and Ninja are tons easier than Dragoon. Also, Dragoons can't come close to us Monks unless we're bad and they play perfectly. Also that is the thing, Dragoon doesn't get rewarded for perfect play. Ninja and Monk gets their power for free, Dragoon has to work for it and still don't deal near DPS.

You're dead wrong, Ninja is the hardest. I can say that after getting to level 46, where all the Ninjutsu skills are fully open and the last real attack on GCD is added. You have 3 different attack combos, one of which being a DoT, one being a slashing defense debuff (and healing potency drop), and the last being straight up damage. Add into that Ninjutsu, of which you have a total of 6 different skills and 1 of which must always be up in order to help maximize DPS (and thus have to reuse every 3rd Ninjutsu usage). Ninjutsu in general is always off GCD so it's going to be used between moves every 20s, sometimes the command lasting long enough to where you could have gotten another GCD move in (but you can't, since it messes up the Ninjutsu). So that's 3 GCD combos and 6 off GCD usable moves, almost all of which are useful (2 sadly get outclassed easily). Try pulling out the correct combinations for maximum DPS without a guide, it's going to get ridiculously hard (plus Ninjutsu is easily messed up on).

Compare that to the 2 damage combo rotations for DRG, and you're telling me DRG is the hardest? You're delusional. MNK would be easiest, DRG middle ground, NIN hardest. That's from me having leveled all 3 of the classes, one of which I main (MNK).

[Fayto]

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Ninja is really easy, people are trying to make it seem harder than it is. I've played Ninja in multiple content, coil, st, etc. Far easier than Dragoon. If you have a Warrior, you'll never use Dancing Edge. On top of which their rotation is extremely similar to Monk's. Only thing that is hard on Ninja is Mudra due to server latency, but other then that really easy.

Actually Ninja's Dancing Edge is easier than Monk as if a second Monk uses Dragon Kick you have to tell yourself not to use it but with Ninja you wont and just use Aeolian Edge.

[RyuDragnier]

Ninja is really easy, people are trying to make it seem harder than it is. I've played Ninja in multiple content, coil, st, etc. Far easier than Dragoon. If you have a Warrior, you'll never use Dancing Edge. On top of which their rotation is extremely similar to Monk's. Only thing that is hard on Ninja is Mudra due to server latency, but other then that really easy.

Actually Ninja's Dancing Edge is easier than Monk as if a second Monk uses Dragon Kick you have to tell yourself not to use it but with Ninja you wont and just use Aeolian Edge.

You can have a combo within a combo, within a combo. In the middle of any GCD combo, you can Ninjutsu combo to Suiton, then immediately use Sneak Attack and Trick Attack, and then finish the first combo. Anything that disturbs the Ninjutsu combo on your end can instantly destroy that combo, putting it on cooldown for 20s if you don't have the last NIN move (I don't have it yet, don't know what it's caused) or have already used it to reset the combo. This can stop you from putting on Huton (15% attack speed boost), Suiton to allow you to use both Sneak and Trick Attacks outside of battle, or Doton if you need a damage AoE field. That's at least 20s without your DPS being up to par, compared to maybe 3-6 seconds on DRG if you miss the rear attack on Impulse Drive or Heavy Thrust.

So again, NIN is currently the hardest melee DPS, not DRG.

[beowulf81]

You can have a combo within a combo, within a combo. In the middle of any GCD combo, you can Ninjutsu combo to Suiton, then immediatelyuse Sneak Attack and Trick Attack, and then finish the first combo. Anything that disturbs the Ninjutsu combo on your end can instantly destroy that combo, putting it on cooldown for 20s if you don't have the last NIN move (I don't have it yet, don't know what it's caused) or have already used it to reset the combo. This can stop you from putting on Huton (15% attack speed boost), Suiton to allow you to use both Sneak and Trick Attacks outside of battle, or Doton if you need a damage AoE field. That's at least 20s without your DPS being up to par, compared to maybe 3-6 seconds on DRG if you miss the rear attack on Impulse Drive or Heavy Thrust.

So again, NIN is currently the hardest melee DPS, not DRG.

No. Ninja may have more demanding input requirements (i.e. multiple ones) but execution and number of buttons to push is not what makes a role difficult, not at endgame. The assumption here is that the player is actually half decent and has his rotation down perfectly, and that is not an unfair assumption to make.

Your issues are with execution and actually pressing buttons. That does not make Ninja harder as a dps class than dragoon at endgame. your dps output is down to you; yes, lag can screw your mudras, especially if you're mashing buttons with your eyes closed, but the same is true with rollback on HT or impulse drive. Ninja has no positional requirements. It is not punished anywhere near as harshly as Dragoon for a missed attack. The cost per mistake for a dragoon is extortionate, much higher than it is for a monk or a ninja; that mistake may result from something that is beyond your ability to control, given the positional dependancy that dragoons have. And of course, the dps ceiling for dragoons is far lower than ninjas and monks.

That means that even if you hit everything perfectly, hitting every positional, you will still do less damage than a ninja who messed up his rotations a few times. if you miss a positional, your dps will plummet, by a greater amount than the same mistake would cost a monk. Positionals do not matter for a ninja. It is entirely possible for you to play perfectly as a dragoon only making one mistake, and end up not doing nearly as much damage as a monk or a ninja who screwed up his rotation a half dozen times. That makes having a mediocre monk/ninja better for a static than having a very good dragoon. There is no reward for the extra risk that rolling a dragoon entails. None.

When you evaluate performance of DPS'ers at endgame, its based on one thing; how much damage they were able to do. It is harder for a dragoon to do respectable damage then it is for any other class; they are punished far more harshly for mistakes, their optimal dps ceiling is low, they have the lowest survivability at endgame, high reliance on b4b and moves that lock you in place… all those add up to the worst dps class for endgame.

[Fayto]

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This guy gets it. Monk or Ninja messes up? Slight DPS decrease. Dragoon messes up? Their attacks don't work. Again, Dragoons are not rewarded enough for perfect play despite being harder than Monk or Ninja where as they get free power.

[Dwill]

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Post of the thread right here.

Something people seems to forget is this:

Balance shouldn't be made according to "What if people fail to do it correctly ?", it should made according to "What can this class achieve if it's played to its maximum potential ?" a.k.a evenly geared and evenly skilled player brings relatively close damage (which isn't the case right now) and some form of utility (Mantra > anything Dragoon brings to the table).