[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

[Madoka]

This is now a no essay zone

[Dwill]

snip

Actually, most MMO's pet class have ~30% of their pet doing the damage. And sorry, I don't want to be a want to be a DPS/Support Hybrid. The class is fine as is, minus a few QoL changes. It doesn't need an overhaul and it will not receive one either. What's so hard to grasp about that ?

Edit: Comparing Hack and Slash pet classes versus MMO pet classes is a terrible comparison. They are two very different types of game with two veru different type of balance.

[Deliciou5]

Actually, most MMO's pet class have ~30% of their pet doing the damage. And sorry, I don't want to be a want to be a DPS/Support Hybrid. The class is fine as is, minus a few QoL changes. It doesn't need an overhaul and it will not receive one either. What's so hard to grasp about that ?

Edit: Comparing Hack and Slash pet classes versus MMO pet classes is a terrible comparison. They are two very different types of game with two very different type of balance.

While i know diablo 3 is not the same exact type of game as FFXIV, it is a RPG game with pet issues all the same that dragonfire decided to use an example. I was really referring to witchdoctor in that it was a unique design on how we can think outside the box of how creatures in video games should be summoned.

Also its not unreasonable that the basics of a rpg, the way stat are handled cannot be taken into consideration. The development team of diablo 3 had a very good idea to fix the pet that could of easily been applied to this game with a little balancing/tweaking since they were referring to the game pets AI unable to dodge attacks which is also considered an issue of this game when debating on whether or not we should make pets stronger.

Hack and slash games are dynasty warriors,devil may cry, god of war,Castlvania:LOS,etc. Diablo 3 is considered isometric dungeon crawling RPG.

If the developers never do it, that's fine. I enjoy discussing these type of things, and maybe someday if i decide to make my own game which i inspire to...all this discussion will help me refine my knowledge and ideas so they will be more solid in the future. So whether i accept it or not, will not deter me in the slightest.

It is your prerogative if you want the class to remain the same, however ideas or attempts at persuasion are very seldomly taken seriously if there is a clear bias towards one side or another. While i am somewhat biased myself for the game to change, i can admit to my mistakes and entertain the idea that i could be wrong. It adds to my credibility that i am willing to discuss the other side and not try to censor it by requesting thread locks or tell people to accept that they are wrong and move on without discussion.

[Dwill]

Snip

Saying that Diablo III (which is funny because the first Diablo is what helped popularize the genre) isn't a hack and slash game but Castlevania (The very definition of the Action-adventure genre) is one is totally pants-on-head stupid and contrary to what you state, actually makes you even less credible.

I am all up for discussion as well but no matter what you seem to think, no sane developer will ever balance a MMO pet class to be similar to a hack and slash one. It just doesn't work that way. You want to change something that works perfectly fine right now just because a vocal minority doesn't like it and that's just not going to happen.

[dday3six]

I am all up for discussion as well but no matter what you seem to think, no sane developer will ever balance a MMO pet class to be similar to a hack and slash one. It just doesn't work that way. You want to change something that works perfectly fine right now just because a vocal minority doesn't like it and that's just not going to happen.

Don't forget their clearly stated motive of wanting to fish for ideas from random people on another game's forum, cause they hope to develop their own game one day.

If the developers never do it, that's fine. I enjoy discussing these type of things, and maybe someday if i decide to make my own game which i inspire to...all this discussion will help me refine my knowledge and ideas so they will be more solid in the future. So whether i accept it or not, will not deter me in the slightest.

[Deliciou5]

Saying that Diablo III (which is funny because the first Diablo is what helped popularize the genre) isn't a hack and slash game but Castlevania (The very definition of the Action-adventure genre) is one is totally pants-on-head stupid and contrary to what you state, actually makes you even less credible.

I am all up for discussion as well but no matter what you seem to think, no sane developer will ever balance a MMO pet class to be similar to a hack and slash one. It just doesn't work that way. You want to change something that works perfectly fine right now just because a vocal minority doesn't like it and that's just not going to happen.

Castlevania lords of shadows is like god of war and devil may cry style of games. You only said castlevania by itself so i assume missed out on the LoS i included.

I guess you could call diablo 3 action and adventure, however isometric dungeon crawler rpg is easily just equal fit of a label.

You don't seem up for discussion. Since you do not try to discuss any of the ideas in my post and just want to find flaw with it. I up for flaws of my mistakes themselves on each individual point and not broad sweeping generalizations that diablo 3 and mmo's don't have any RPG connections at all. Your arguments have no substance and only focus on rhetoric and cherry picking parts of the post to try and discredit me rather than actually discussing the content of the post at length.

Don't forget their clearly stated motive of wanting to fish for ideas from random people on another game's forum, cause they hope to develop their own game one day.

I want summoner to improve in FFXIV because i enjoy playing FFXIV and always enjoyed summoner as a class and i want FFXIV to succeed.However, In your eyes i am not to be taken seriously because i enjoy discussing ideas seriously, and because somehow me wanting to become a game developer someday makes me less credible? You see, this is why i ignored your last 1 or 2 posts. You don't really seem intent on discussing anything worthwhile that's directly relates to the subjects or ideas i lay down in my posts and instead find ways to try and make me upset or get people to take me less seriously without addressing the actual ideas by my original posts.

SE is not going to find me less credible because i aspire to become a game developer and wouldn't mind adding to my knowledge and improving upon myself. I am not a threat to them or their game, and if anything i am potentially a boon if they decide to change their minds in the future.Me wanting to make games for a living does not make me discussing ideas for games less credible just because i don't fit your idea of absolute brand loyalty where if i don't only support this game then clearly my ideas somehow are wrong.I don't understand...are you trying to imply that i am somehow the enemy and SE must ignore me or something?

They are not children they understand that even game developers may enjoy their games as well. Fishing for ideas for a game that doesn't even exist yet is not something i am exactly doing. I just keep refining my knowledge so when i do decide to develop a game... i will know what i am talking about.The other half of that refinement of my wisdom is playing games like FFXIV and other genre of games that also have RPG systems.

[Exstal]

I want summoner to improve in FFXIV

Complete overhaul is only an improvement in some eyes. Discuss QoL changes, not job butchering.

[Dwill]

snip

The game is successful already and a butchering of the summoner class is a sure way to go in the other direction. You're style of ideas have been debated a thousand times over and bringing them back over and over again is asinine at best. Also, I am not attacking you but the flaws of your arguments (which seem keen to change by arguing semantics).

You keep talking about others needing to be taken seriously so here is an advice exactly so you can be taken seriously. Propose realistic changes for the job, like QoL and not changes that would butcher it.

[dday3six]

*snip*

If outlining your motives for assertly pressing for further discussion bothers you so much, perhaps you should re-examine your motives.

I don't want to discuss ideas with you because your not just talking about redoing Summoner with that massive wall of text, but also competely redefining the role of Healer now as well. Not only would parties be stacked with Summoners thus invalidating other dps if they functioned as you described, but it'd likely replace a Healer as well. Oh, and they could pinch Tank too. There is little difference between Akiza's 'Summoner should do everything' posts and your own aside from length, and the ulterior motive of wanting to keep people talking so you can expand your gaming knowledge, in hopes to later apply to your own game.

[FlowersofPower]

would you guys feel better about smn if the spells weren't so evil? for example instead of bio , bane, and virus they could have trine, magic breath, and shock(shock would probably be a paladin ability considering FFT and ff9)