Red Mage - A DoM Tank Job?

[GalkaBikini]

Almost every FF that's ever had Red Mage is turned based.

FF1 is turn based. FF3 is turn based. FF5 is not. FFXI is not. FFXII is not.

RDM had access to lower tiers of what BLM and WHM had access to, so yes it had weaker magic as a whole.

You said weak, not weaker. There is a big difference there. You haven't changed much since the FFXI forums... so difficult to talk to. I mean right after that you go on to talk about what "RDM should be in concept" and then say it could be within 5% damage of a true melee DPS. How can you seriously think that is OK? The class that you keep describing is not Red Mage, period. You need to figure out a name for this class you keep trying to turn RDM into, so you can call it that instead. And no, RDM is not comparable to Ret Pally or Enhancement Shaman from WoW, those 2 classes are REAL MELEE DPS. RDM is a hybrid. Shaman and Paladin in WoW haven't been hybrids since Vanilla.

Actually, I think the class you're looking for is Mystic Knight. I don't know why you keep confusing that for RDM.

[Duelle]

You haven't changed much since the FFXI forums... so difficult to talk to. I mean right after that you go on to talk about what "RDM should be in concept" and then say it could be within 5% damage of a true melee DPS. How can you seriously think that is OK?

Again, keep in mind we're talking in the context of a trinity MMORPG, where generalists get the boot 9 times out of 10. In such situations changes and adjustments have to happen for certain jobs and classes to be possible and feasible to use in content. SCH went through this and came out fine. After being relegated to DPSing, WAR became a tank and was given the tools to excel at that role. I've kicked around ideas to turn Samurai and Beastmaster into tanks to create a tank roster and give those jobs a place here within the trinity. By the same token, RDM would have to be less jack-of-all-trades and more "guy with a sword that casts magic".

The class that you keep describing is not Red Mage, period.

You're either arguing for the sake of arguing or have put on blinders on this topic. The defining aspects of RDM are not its being a generalist, but the fact that it's a sword & magic hybrid. Doublecast doesn't make a RDM. Enfeebles don't make a RDM. Refresh and Haste don't make a RDM. Sword, black magic and white magic rolled into one are what make a RDM.

And no, RDM is not comparable to Ret Pally or Enhancement Shaman from WoW, those 2 classes are REAL MELEE DPS. RDM is a hybrid. Shaman and Paladin in WoW haven't been hybrids since Vanilla.

WoW pallys and shaman have been and continue to be hybrids. Speccing ret doesn't take away your ability to cast Holy Light and Flash of Light, nor does it remove Blessing/Hand of Protection, Divine Shield, Divine Intervention nor the buffs from casting Judgment. What happens is that your utility is limited in terms of effectiveness and reliability. Spamming Flash of Light to help heals is going to drain your mana pool within a couple of casts and won't heal for the same amount you'd get from a real healer. Post-Cataclysm you can't remove certain debuffs. You're not gonna replace a tank or healer, but you're not supposed to. Your ret pally or enh shaman is basically DPS with utility and access to stuff outside of their role while performing well enough at their role in the trinity to be worth their spot. And as mentioned before, this sort of approach is perfect for Red Mage.

Actually, I think the class you're looking for is Mystic Knight. I don't know why you keep confusing that for RDM.

Mystic knight is built around casting elemental spells through a sword. That's it. It can't heal, it has no utility, and the general concept is limited to a small niche. That's why that aspect was rolled into RDM when the FFXI team created enspells.

[GalkaBikini]

The defining aspects of RDM are not its being a generalist, but the fact that it's a sword & magic hybrid. Doublecast doesn't make a RDM. Enfeebles don't make a RDM. Refresh and Haste don't make a RDM. Sword, black magic and white magic rolled into one are what make a RDM.

How many times does it have to be said? RDM is a hybrid white and black magic user, who CAN do very mediocre melee damage. Where, in all of that, is a class that can do 5% less melee damage than that of a real melee DPS class?

And LOL, have fun healing yourself for 2K on your ret pally when things do 10 times that amount of damage. I'm starting to wonder if you even actually play video games, honestly.

[Rosalynd]

How many times does it have to be said? RDM is a hybrid white and black magic user, who CAN do very mediocre melee damage. Where, in all of that, is a class that can do 5% less melee damage than that of a real melee DPS class?

And LOL, have fun healing yourself for 2K on your ret pally when things do 10 times that amount of damage. I'm starting to wonder if you even actually play video games, honestly.

Ya know, now i think this guy is simply trolling. Best to ignore it from here on i think.

[Duelle]

Ya know, now i think this guy is simply trolling. Best to ignore it from here on i think.

Noted and done.