[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

[dday3six]

*snip*

Astral Fire is a Thm/Blm buff. Not wanting to be aesthetically similar to Black Mage would rule out names like Astral Burn. Skills from Acn can't be named after Primals. Sch is not connected to Primals like Smn loosely is, neither is Acn for that matter. Also localizing new names for all the languages FFXIV is offered in would be a large undertaking.

It is widely thought that once Heavensward releases, and the level cap is increased, Smn will get more egis.

I'm curious why you believe your egis need to be so large that they block the field of view for others? I'm really trying not to be rude, but seriously I don't understand why some people feel they need to have skills which will, given the scale that you're talking, interfere with other players.

LoL, I'm really beginning to wonder if SE had named Summoner something different would people still complain that it didn't "feel" right...

[MikeyLikesIt]

I haven't contributed to this conversation yet, but I did manage to read through all the posts thus far. I like many others feel the Summoner Job is lacking. I would be far happier if Bio II, Miasma and Bio were summons of things that did identical damage but as a summoned thing.

For example Bio II could be a chocomog that attacks your target. The visual would be this yellow bird head butting or pecking away, providing identical damage that Bio II would have. Having up 3 "summons" to represent the Bio II, Bio and Miasma damage would be really cool visually and make me feel like a summoner.

Changes like these, however cosmetic as they may be would go a long way towards making the job feel like i'm summoning things.

Regarding the garuda/contagion mess, moving contagion to SMN or removing it from the game entirely seem like what needs to be done. As pets are now, merely an auto attack bot that has next to no interactivity we might as well be able to swap pets for flavor. Or remove pets entirely and give us more "summons" to balance dps, which I prefer.

[Dyvid]

I haven't contributed to this conversation yet, but I did manage to read through all the posts thus far. I like many others feel the Summoner Job is lacking. I would be far happier if Bio II, Miasma and Bio were summons of things that did identical damage but as a summoned thing.

Hmm, this is actually a good idea and interesting concept. It would need to be changed around to fit SCH/ACN but still a good idea. Also I don't think you could have them hitting the mob for the duration but maybe a classic summon hit and release would work.

Madiun Egi - Bio
Siren Egi - Miasma
Catoblepas Egi - Bio II
Fenrir Egi - Miasma II
Diabolos Egi - Shadow Flare

[Delily]

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So, you want the summons to be nothing more than casting animations and spell effects?

I never solidified my position, but I am perfectly happy with the SMN implemented as a "DoT caster + pet" class. I also like the SMN/SCH split, which I think (intentionally or unintentionally) brings the summoner's characteristic utility to this game's role based class design. That being said, the one area I wish was improved was using summons other than Garuda-igi. Right now, the pets suffer the same fate as the warlock minions did in WoW - once you got the feel hunter, there was little reason to use the other 3. I'm waiting to see how the other egis work out.

[Dwill]

Snip

I actually like the concept as well. Having a few mini-egis that acts as the DoT themselves in which they would be replacing Miasma, Bio and Bio II when a Summoner Crystal is equipped as to not screw over scholar and they keep the same total potency. They wouldn't be considered as pets so they would have no interaction with Rouse and Spur but could keep being buffed via Raging Strikes which means you get to keep the big egi so the summoner still stays as a "DoT" + Pet job.

This could as well be easily balanced and fit the lore even with Bane and Fester. For Bane, it could easily be explained that you consume a stack of Aetherflow to multiply your mini-egis and Fester could easily be renamed to something akin to Aetheric Burst in which you consume a stack of Aetherflow to command the mini-egis of your current target to burst it.

Nice concept there Mikey, I like it! It's a refreshing change to read something like this.

So, you want the summons to be nothing more than casting animations and spell effects?

I never solidified my position, but I am perfectly happy with the SMN implemented as a "DoT caster + pet" class. I also like the SMN/SCH split, which I think (intentionally or unintentionally) brings the summoner's characteristic utility to this game's role based class design. That being said, the one area I wish was improved was using summons other than Garuda-igi. Right now, the pets suffer the same fate as the warlock minions did in WoW - once you got the feel hunter, there was little reason to use the other 3. I'm waiting to see how the other egis work out.

The only thing this does is a graphical change and a rename of some abilities to increase the feel of actually summoning things. Technically speaking, the playstyle would remain totally unchanged as you'd still have DoTs but with a different name/graphic and you get to keep the big egis.

As for the WoW comparison, that is untrue. The damage difference between an Observer and a Fel Imp is <1% and people in Mythic raids will often take the imp due to his better target switching capacity and the fact that he increases the Warlock's self-sustain.

[Delily]

Ok, I had an idea. Let's put some numbers in this post. SMN currently comprise 11% of the total population, and 21% of the DPS population. Between 2013 and 2014, the class saw 5% growth (16% to 21%). Additionally, SMN can damage on par with the BLM. All of these markers indicate the class has good representation in the game. Now, pretend you're Yoshi, and you need to go to your manager and argue that you need to divert resources away from the development of Heavenward, bug fixes, and other content to reimplement a class that is doing well so people will be able to play a previous implementation (FFXI). Tell me, how will you make that argument?

[Akiza]

SE should make the Summoner a Pet Based Job in 3.0 and forgo the class system. Egis should be more detailed and look like a smaller replica of the Primals at 30% scale. Give the Egis Hard Mod Primal abilities :buffs, debuffs and mega burst AoE.

[Dwill]

Ok, I had an idea. Let's put some numbers in this post. SMN currently comprise 11% of the total population, and 21% of the DPS population. Between 2013 and 2014, the class saw 5% growth (16% to 21%). Additionally, SMN can damage on par with the BLM. All of these markers indicate the class has good representation in the game. Now, pretend you're Yoshi, and you need to go to your manager and argue that you need to divert resources away from the development of Heavenward, bug fixes, and other content to reimplement a class that is doing well so people will be able to play a previous implementation (FFXI). Tell me, how will you make that argument?

First, citation needed for your numbers, second, if Black Mage are allowed to turret, they will beat Summoners and finally, how does that suggestion has anything to do with FFXI ?

[Delily]

SE should make the Summoner a Pet Based Job in 3.0 and forgo the class system. Egis should be more detailed and look like a smaller replica of the Primals at 30% scale. Give the Egis Hard Mod Primal abilities :buffs, debuffs and mega burst AoE.

With reference to my previous post, I am going to have to ask you to continue your development on Heavensward and bg fixes. Redesigning every single class and rebalancing the game like this is definitely out of scope. If you can make a real argument, please come back to my office.

[Delily]

First, citation needed for your numbers, second, if Black Mage are allowed to turret, they will beat Summoners and finally, how does that suggestion has anything to do with FFXI ?

Citation given: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...33#post2505233

Akiza basically want the summoner from FFXI supplanted into this game. The references to black mages was that if there was a significant damage difference between the 2 of them, people wouldn't be playing smn. As the population for smn is on par with BLM (according to the latest data), people are happy and including them. By all accounts, the data indicates people are playing the class. So why divert resources to reimplement them as such which would also require significant rebalancing? What's the expected ROI?