Cash shop confirmed

[Merylx]

Pretty sure if they're looking at anything it's the sales of the Retainers and Fantasias, since you know how adamant people love to state "FFXIV is not FFXI."

P.S You seem to have forgotten how Yoshida looks up to Blizzard and using WoW as the 'role model' for FFXIV.

Tupsi, is this seriously all you talk about? In almost all of your posts you've just got to mention how much FFXIV is a clone of 'WoW' or your love of FFXI.

[Alukah]

Tupsi, is this seriously all you talk about? In almost all of your posts you've just got to mention how much FFXIV is a clone of 'WoW' or your love of FFXI.

You forgot "taking anything Yoshida says out of context and use it to build snowmen, with straw instead of snow"

I have never see him say anything positive about the game, it's always how it should have been like XI or how 1.0 was better, makes me wonder why he still plays it (if he does) when XI is still alive and kicking, why force yourself to play something you don't enjoy?

[Vhailor]

If SE keeps all cash shop items as vanity only, and makes them also obtainable in-game by completing content, similar to what they've done for everything else up to this point, that will be fine. Whether it be quests, FATE drops, seasonal events, crafting recipes, whatever... As long as I, and anyone else, has the option of obtaining those same items by actually playing the game, rather than pulling out the credit card, I see no problem with it.

There are a couple of ways this can still harm the game, depending on one's view.

The first is that the presence of a cash shop, by definition, changes the nature of the community which chooses to play the game. As I've said before, I played FFXI over WoW largely because I preferred the community. The continuing effort by the development team to emulate aspects of WoW is therefore, to me, harming the game.

The second is theoretical, and obviously there is no way to prove it, which I freely admit. However, given that there's a cash shop alternative, I can't help but wonder whether this will continue to embolden SE to release vanity items with the ridiculously low drop rates that a lot of them currently have. For instance, the 1% or so drop rate on the Primal horses is absurd. It should never have been this low - ever. Were there no cash shop, these artificially low drop rates would become a source of increasingly vocal complaints by the community, eventually leading to change. With a cash shop, on the other hand, those complaints will largely vanish - and SE will have effectively created its own market, while still technically maintaining the ability of players to get the item via in-game content. To me, this type of decision would also harm the game, though again, it's hard to say whether these two decisions have been intentionally correlated on the development side.

So, I'm not sure it's a fair "compromise" really.

To broaden my response slightly, the main issue here is that compromise is somewhat impossible. I think the core complaint of people opposed to the cash shop is that they don't want XIV to appeal to larger populations; they want it to be a more selective title, like FFXI was. The existence of a cash shop, no matter the form, no matter how restricted, is still a problem for these individuals - not because it directly affects them, but because it indirectly alters the composition of the community in ways they don't like.

Edit / Addition:

You can just pay your subscription and that's it...be thankful they aimed for that option instead of charging MORE out of the subscription.

Frankly, I'd have actually rather seen them attach $5/mo more to the subscription price. As alluded to above, I explicitly do not want FFXIV catering to the masses to the extent that it is. A higher price range helps to make it more selective, and a corresponding lack of a cash shop (with preferably a wholesale shift away from the amount of vanity gear being released) would also help to improve the community, in my eyes. One of the best aspects of FFXI's development, in my eyes, is that the game was created under a consistent image, rather than catering to the most people possible. It's what gave it the unique feel and complex world that many of us treasure to this day. FFXIV has thus far tossed that philosophy out, which might make for more subscribers, but results in a weaker game, in my opinion.

[Xairos]

To broaden my response slightly, the main issue here is that compromise is somewhat impossible. I think the core complaint of people opposed to the cash shop is that they don't want XIV to appeal to larger populations; they want it to be a more selective title, like FFXI was. The existence of a cash shop, no matter the form, no matter how restricted, is still a problem for these individuals - not because it directly affects them, but because it indirectly alters the composition of the community in ways they don't like.

I agree with you on this one. I can empathize with those who want FFXIV to remain small scale. I mean I kinda loved that about FFXI. But another part of me wants people to take this game as a proper MMO. and If (a big speculation as I dont know what SE will do with the extra funds) the extra money lends to higher quality books and cds or dvds or real life events, then thats the best I can hope for. If this is the dark-ish path SE needs to take to make a MMO that people will see, then *sigh* I can see how it pans out.

Frankly, I'd have actually rather seen them attach $5/mo more to the subscription price. As alluded to above, I explicitly do not want FFXIV catering to the masses to the extent that it is. A higher price range helps to make it more selective, and a corresponding lack of a cash shop (with preferably a wholesale shift away from the amount of vanity gear being released) would also help to improve the community, in my eyes. One of the best aspects of FFXI's development, in my eyes, is that the game was created under a consistent image, rather than catering to the most people possible. It's what gave it the unique feel and complex world that many of us treasure to this day. FFXIV has thus far tossed that philosophy out, which might make for more subscribers, but results in a weaker game, in my opinion.

They somewhat tried being different with FFXI, while it was profitable for what it was, it was a very small game and as such it took it a long time to be profitable.

[Vhailor]

They somewhat tried being different with FFXI, while it was profitable for what it was, it was a very small game and as such it took it a long time to be profitable.

Exactly and, from a business standpoint, I can certainly see why SE has taken the path they've chosen. The fact that it disappoints me personally, along with other players, doesn't change this fact.

To each their own, I suppose. I just regret that myself (and others) have been sacrificed in the name of larger profits - not in the least because I need to hunt down a new MMO in the sea of available titles if I want to continue to enjoy a modern-day version of FFXI

[Xhominid]

snip

How does this make sense to anyone? To plenty of people, P2P is a dying breed and not many people like paying 15$ a month just to play a game as is, now you are saying you are okay with an extra 5$ to make it more selective!? I'm not really sure what your aim is, but it's definitely not trying to be a "consistent image".
You need to get that despite what XI was doing, it was only a sucessful MMO in terms on not screwing over SE. Like it or not, sometimes pandering to everyone is the best way to make cash and while it sucks, it's understandable comparing to watching a game wither and die. I'm not the biggest fan of cash shops, but I would absolutely take one than pay more out of a subscription just to play a game.

[Vhailor]

How does this make sense to anyone? To plenty of people, P2P is a dying breed and not many people like paying 15$ a month just to play a game as is, now you are saying you are okay with an extra 5$ to make it more selective!? I'm not really sure what your aim is, but it's definitely not trying to be a "consistent image".
You need to get that despite what XI was doing, it was only a sucessful MMO in terms on not screwing over SE. Like it or not, sometimes pandering to everyone is the best way to make cash and while it sucks, it's understandable comparing to watching a game wither and die. I'm not the biggest fan of cash shops, but I would absolutely take one than pay more out of a subscription just to play a game.

My point is that the type of MMO I want to play is a selective one. This is completely independent from whether or not such a model is economically viable or not - I'm merely stating my preferences as a gamer. In my case, pandering to everyone is sufficiently damaging to a MMO that I simply won't play it. This doesn't hold true for everyone, but it does for me. I'd rather not play a MMO at all than play one that only half-manages to meet my desires from a title.

This really holds true for any genre. We all have things that we like, and if the market doesn't provide them, many of us choose to simply abandon the market, rather than settle. It's entertainment, after all - why settle when there are countless other options?

Edit: This relates to my desire for a "consistent image" because a development team that pursues a rich and varied game world, while ignoring unnecessary or market-focused accommodations, might need to charge a higher fee in order to be economically viable. In other words, I'd rather pay more for a niche title that is designed with gameplay as the sole focus, rather than pay less for a broadly based title that is designed with the size of the user base in mind.

[Vhailor]

I appreciate the detailed response, Preypacer - a couple of notes, though I agree with most of it.

People are going to complain about things being too slow no matter what. If someone thinks something should take an hour, and it takes three, they're going to complain about it being too long of a grind. Welcome to the modern MMO genre.

No matter how far SE goes, or what they do, it's not going to be enough, and people are still going to be pissed off.

I agree in principle, though I think in many notable cases (the rarity of Primal horses, ATMA, etc.) they've clearly failed to hit anything remotely close to a reasonable rate. There will never be something that's perfect for everyone, but there's a broad grey area that's acceptable to the majority, and they can at the least do a better job in hitting that.

Well, any hope of appealing to a more select audience was gone the moment Yoshi-P decided on the new direction for the game. That decision has been underscored increasingly with various changes and additions to the game, the cash shop being the latest, but probably not last example.

I agree, which is why I unsubbed months ago. The reason I am disappointed for this announcement is that frequently, MMOs shift from "attracting" mode to "retention" mode when they release their first expansion. The announcement of a cash shop clearly indicated to me that the approach wouldn't be changing with the release of Heavensward, which is a shame in my eyes.

As for the community, eh... community isn't something you can "control". Community is the collective sum of many individuals acting of their own accord, personalities, behavior, etc. It's not some single, malleable blob to be shaped and formed according to players' wishes. May as well try herding cats.

In a certain sense, you're right; no company can precisely control its community. They can influence it broadly, though. Deep mechanics with relatively steep learning curves, for instance, tend to attract more serious gamers and fewer casual types. Subscription fees tend to result in higher community continuity - i.e., people willing to embrace a P2P model are less likely to disappear and reappear frequently. A strong emphasis on vanity, including cash shops, appeals to players for whom looking pretty is just as much of an objective as acquiring end-game gear and embracing challenging content. When taken in combination, I think these actually have a powerful impact on who plays a title. You'll always have plenty of exceptions to the rule, of course.

Now, as for the compromise bit.. I mention that it's the best possible compromise I can imagine. I would much rather have no cash shop at all, outsie of character or account services (name/server/race/gender change, etc). However, knowing that the cash shop is there, and is going to be there no matter how loudly people protest (the OP of this thread could get 2000 likes, and it won't matter... it's a done deal), the best compromise we can hope for is to allow those who don't want to deal with it at all the option of completing content in-game to obtain those items, so they don't have to.

Under the circumstances, I would be perfectly okay with that.

Fair enough. For those willing to compromise in the first place, I completely agree on this point.

Edit / Addition:

If their actual goal was to attract more casual players, you know what they would actually do? Put in a vendor in the game that gives these items out at no additional cost.

This entire line of thinking is dumb. They aren't trying to attract more players with a cash shop. They are trying to make more money off of you, the current player. That is the only goal of the cash shop, and you are a fool if you actually accept it.

You clearly haven't read my previous opinions, and being rude gives a bad name to everyone who is opposed to the cash shop.

What you clearly missed is that there is a degree of relativity involved in attracting new players. You're right that offering vanity items for free would attract more new players than a cash shop, but a cash shop will likely help to retain or attract more new players than doing nothing at all. Not only that, but it will have the added benefit of "dragging out" vanity content for casual players, thereby helping with retention, and also making SE some extra money in the process.

You're acting like goals are one-dimensional rather than multifaceted, which is a rather ignorant perspective to have.