Instant Win Button [Can we have it?]

[abzoluut]

It seriously worries me how this vocal group claiming Coil is too difficult, gets rewarded. What does this mean for the future?

I get it, there are people that just want to clear stuff for story or just don't want a challenge and just want to clear stuff, perfectly fine. SE, can you bring savage out with drops? Please notice how the same people would complain about savage being too difficult.. In the end they just want gear..

[Fawkes]

It seriously worries me how this vocal group claiming Coil is too difficult, gets rewarded. What does this mean for the future?

I get it, there are people that just want to clear stuff for story or just don't want a challenge and just want to clear stuff, perfectly fine. SE, can you bring savage out with drops? Please notice how the same people would complain about savage being too difficult.. In the end they just want gear..

There is no "vocal group" getting their way. If you listen to what SE says, they make coil easier based off of clear rates. They have access to the data of how many players have cleared it, and are choosing to make it easier based off that data. Maybe that should tell you that a lot of people are not clearing it.

[Prototype909]

There is no "vocal group" getting their way. If you listen to what SE says, they make coil easier based off of clear rates. They have access to the data of how many players have cleared it, and are choosing to make it easier based off that data. Maybe that should tell you that a lot of people are not clearing it.

And if they can't clear T5 they won't clear T9, and if they can't clear T9 they won't clear T13. Nerfing content to give them a free pass to the next point of progression when they couldn't even handle the previous (Easier) step is not the answer. It just delays their frustration and gives them a false sense of progression and moves them onto something that they didn't actually put the time in to learn or clear.

More importantly it gives them gear to feel good about, which let's be honest for all the talk about special snowflake elitists wanting to keep their trophies exclusive the opposite is also true. They want the fancy Allagan/High Allagan drops just as much as some people want them to stay exclusive to those who actually clear content unnerfed. It's all about trophy gear for some people, they don't care about raiding or progression, just looking cool.

Maybe if the majority of players can't clear T5 they should rethink what their goals are in the game rather than having content that might not be designed for them be warped into something it wasn't designed to be. 3/4 of the game is already targeted at players who don't or can't raid, let the elitists have their corner.

[NyarukoW]

... let the elitists have their corner.

Why do should the people that treat other people poorly and badly ever even have one corner in Eorzea? That doesn't make sense at all.

Elite players do not have the mean, cruel, exclusionary or treat the newbies with contempt. Those players are NOT elitist. Those player do get their hard challenging content. They always get a new one. The final coil will replace the second coil. And if the put in the effort to recruit build up a static, they earned the right to get access to those before the casual players, newer, or newbie players, but no one should have the right to exclude other players from T5, T9, or T13 or whatever content forever.

Nobody is asking for the "I WIN" button. That is what you call a strawman made up by the OP.

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There is no "vocal group" getting their way. If you listen to what SE says, they make coil easier based off of clear rates. They have access to the data of how many players have cleared it, and are choosing to make it easier based off that data. Maybe that should tell you that a lot of people are not clearing it.

SE has good business sense about this. And it absolutely make sense. They have timing and pacing they want to set and maintain to move the story along, and no one is being hurt by doing this. The scripted fights are no harder than figuring out the timing and adjust for the bit of RNG in the script. It doesn't matter if it is T9 or ifrit story mode. The hard part recruiting and organizing people to commit to figuring it out. I was recently pugging T7, and we got Melusine down to 35% and this was after multiple PFs and multiple runs with different people whether I kited with my SMN or someone else with their bard. In contrast with my static, putting in a couple of hours for 2 nights in a row we got the clear on T7 with one new member needing to clear. But there is no good reason, once newer hard content replaces the old that SE should prevent 99% of the playerbase from getting clears old stuff because they cannot get a static. SE making older stuff more accessible is both sane and good business sense. And still we need to help new people in the FC get T5 clears and even that likely has not exceeded 25% of the player base.

For the TL;DR people.
What elite players earn is the bragging right earlier than everyone else and rightly so. What elitist should NEVER get is to exclude the rest of the player base indefinitely (a.k.a forever).

[CramerGamer]

For the TL;DR people.
What elite players earn is the bragging right earlier than everyone else and rightly so. What elitist should NEVER get is to exclude the rest of the player base indefinitely (a.k.a forever).

They aren't excluded forever, they're excluded until they're good enough to clear content that is optional. If you aren't good enough to clear the content you can improve, wait for gear iLvl to gradually easy the content (Big difference between this and actually nerfing mechanics + echo buff), or do story mode Coil which is in works according to Fanfest.

[NyarukoW]

They aren't excluded forever, they're excluded until they're good enough to clear content that is optional....

Raid content is optional, just like the whole game is optional? Right I really get that. If that is your definition of optional. And if content difficulty is NOT adjusted for 99% of the players will be be effectively forever.

...If you aren't good enough to clear the content you can improve, wait for gear iLvl to gradually easy the content ..

Gear level never equal skill. Nor does the echo buff. People who just do not have the time to work on it to memorize the fight will never be "good" by your measuring stick ever, so they will be stuck forever.

...to gradually easy the content (Big difference between this and actually nerfing mechanics + echo buff)...

How gradual is gradual. Adding echo and nerfing mechanics at SE schedule is gradual. The didn't do it 1 week after release. They didn't even do it for 2.3 at 3 months later, and it is 6months now more or less with SCOB. So you just wanted gradual your way, but SE has their way and I think they well know based on their stats from clears by players that the player base like that gradual pace much better.

[CramerGamer]

Raid content is optional, just like the whole game is optional? Right I really get that. If that your definition of optional.

It's not tied to progression, it's not necessary to clear anything, every drop has an equivalent that doesn't require raiding. The story is going to be available through story mode Coil eventually. The only reason to compromise the difficulty of the content is because people are too lazy to put the effort into the fights as they were designed, even after it's already been de-facto nerfed by iLvl raising well beyond what it was intended to be cleared on. Most of these players have no interest in learning or even attempting to do these fights as they stand, they just want to log in and collect their High Allagan gear and feel good about how cool they now look that they have something that was previously off limits to them. Then they get stuck on the next stage of Coil and the cycle continues.

[abzoluut]

There is no "vocal group" getting their way. If you listen to what SE says, they make coil easier based off of clear rates. They have access to the data of how many players have cleared it, and are choosing to make it easier based off that data. Maybe that should tell you that a lot of people are not clearing it.

Yes, because when SE says is based off of X data, that's how it is. They can see it all. Just like how scanned everyone's gil to come up with housing prices. Yet, when they need to look for gil buyers, it suddenly gets silent. They're a business. Of course they will tell us something to back up their decisions... With your theory: if there was not a single thread about Coil's difficulty, they would still nerf it based on their data. I highly doubt that.

Do you (or your FC) run Coil? I'm just curious.

[Fawkes]

Yes, because when SE says is based off of X data, that's how it is. They can see it all. Just like how scanned everyone's gil to come up with housing prices. Yet, when they need to look for gil buyers, it suddenly gets silent. They're a business. Of course they will tell us something to back up their decisions... With your theory: if there was not a single thread about Coil's difficulty, they would still nerf it based on their data. I highly doubt that.

Do you (or your FC) run Coil? I'm just curious.

I don't remember anyone ever complaining about the bees in AK but they got rid of them, so yeah I think they probably would still nerf it based on their data. And yes they can see the data of how many people cleared. At the very least they are looking at the achievement data and can easily see how many people have the achievement for clearing it. There's no achievement for buying gil, so that's probably a bit harder to detect.


One group in my FC has cleared T9. I've only done T5.

[NyarukoW]

Yes, because when SE says is based off of X data, that's how it is. They can see it all. Just like how scanned everyone's gil to come up with housing prices. Yet, when they need to look for gil buyers, it suddenly gets silent. ....

And yet they announce all the bans for accounts involved in RMT, and you say they are silent. If you don't want to trust SE, you don't have to. But false claims are false.

Before suggesting something as simplistic as "don't nerf coil", try to understand the existing system, and how it balances various players interests.
...
Perhaps the reason this isn't the case, is to ensure that only hardcore / committed statics are really able to practice and clear the latest content for a while - if casual players like me started clearing content with a semi-PUG I imagine there would be criticism that the difficulty wasn't enough. As annoying as that is to me I can accept a compromise and stay one patch behind the latest as a casual player playing with my friends. I wonder if there's another reason for not using the syrcus style loot lockout over the complete lockout (on clear) we have in 2nd coil now?[/I]

Well said Velo_Vandore. Too bad many of them will complain about wall of text or won't read.

BTW there is another reason to have lockout. You don't want RMT to have bigger impact than it already does, because people will be selling those runs which will be funded by RMT.

The only people that have a rational reason to be upset about content being more accessible are the clear sellers and RMT gil sellers. Likely the two groups are working together in cahoots. If they have it their way, they'd be happy in final coil never comes and they can keep milking what they got already.