Yoshi and Team treading that fine line

[VicViperion]

by nerfing it, is really taking away the rewards and pride of those who really earned it

The only "pride" in it is whatever you attribute to it, or believe others attribute to it. It's a game, not a job, and no one really seems to care what other players think they've "earned" or not, on either side of the debate. Neither is the content really that hard either. It's base memorization, repetitive in the extreme, and vaguely frustrating, especially if you don't have solid, stable net connection. Earlier today I hopped into a PUG for t6 out of boredom, and my net decided that was a good time to flip out. My ping lept up to unreasonable amounts. Needless to say, I caused a few wipes as a result because even though I wasn't doing anything during Blighted (faced away from boss, not moving, nothing targetted, etc), it still killed me due to my net freaking out.

[HumsterMKX]

that is intended for those who are willing to put in the time and effort to build a static with people who are goal oriented and like-minded. The fact is, this is the only hardcore content in the game currently and by nerfing it, is really taking away the rewards and pride of those who really earned it.

First of all, not everyone want a static, due to all the loot drama or mistake screams over *insert your favourite voice communication here*. Those that want a static may not have a lot of time to play, for example, rotating shift work, and it can change weekly, it is totally impossible to pin point a time.

Secondly, nobody can take away the pride and rewards you earned. It is nothing more then a mental block at best, and a ego trip at worst.

[Parodine]

Coil isn't content that is needed to progress. It has some story elements, but it's difficult content that is intended for those who are willing to put in the time and effort to build a static with people who are goal oriented and like-minded. The fact is, this is the only hardcore content in the game currently and by nerfing it, is really taking away the rewards and pride of those who really earned it. Its not like this content is required to progress in the rest of the game.

In FFXI, I beat Chains of Promathia before any of the nerfs with a group of linkshell friends. There were some crazy hard battles and it was a long road, but we did it.

When they introduced nerfs, I was happy. Happy that other people without the same resources could experience so much of the content I had seen. It didn't take anything away from my achievements. In my head, I still conquered it pre-nerf which was worth bragging about in itself.

I see any changes to coil in a similar light. You will always have your pre-nerf bragging rights. If you let it take away your pride, your pride doesn't come from the achievement itself, but from lording it above others.

[Prototype909]

In FFXI, I beat Chains of Promathia before any of the nerfs with a group of linkshell friends. There were some crazy hard battles and it was a long road, but we did it.

When they introduced nerfs, I was happy. Happy that other people without the same resources could experience so much of the content I had seen. It didn't take anything away from my achievements. In my head, I still conquered it pre-nerf which was worth bragging about in itself.

The difference is that in XI CoP was just one aspect of the mutlifaceted end-game (or the beginnings of such since it was tied to Sea access) instead of literally the only thing for raid players to do.

I would care less if they weren't undermining the only thing that raid players have that isn't dead or outclassed on release

[Parodine]

The difference is that in XI CoP was just one aspect of the mutlifaceted end-game (or the beginnings of such since it was tied to Sea access) instead of literally the only thing for raid players to do.

They aren't nerfing Savage Coil. That will be a different aspect to challenge yourself on, one of which most groups won't bother with attempting.

[Zohnax]

They aren't nerfing Savage Coil. That will be a different aspect to challenge yourself on, one of which most groups won't bother with attempting.

This doesn't justify nerfing Coil into a story mode. What does that leave for future players to challenge themselves with if every high-end raid is no challenge every other patch? That makes an experience that only a select group will ever experience. Keeping some challenge will at least let them share somewhat of the same experience.

[VicViperion]

What does that leave for future players to challenge themselves with

Whatever the current unnerfed raid is. Not to mention challenge is wholly subjective. Coil isn't much of a challenge, it's repetitive and boring. Every boss is an exercise in Simon Says, and it's all mindless wipe mechanics. You know whats a good challenge and fight to me? The bosses in Devil May Cry. Revengence. Shin Megami Tensi games with their fairly complex buff/debuff/weakness systems.

[Kyri]

The difference is that in XI CoP was just one aspect of the mutlifaceted end-game (or the beginnings of such since it was tied to Sea access) instead of literally the only thing for raid players to do.

I would care less if they weren't undermining the only thing that raid players have that isn't dead or outclassed on release

Your statement isn't really.. relevant, though.

OK, so the hardcore players work through and defeat T9. Most people, once they have the system down, beat it regularly from that point without wiping except in unusual circumstances. They essentially have it on "farm mode". This dungeon no longer presents a real challenge to them. It's just another weekly thing to get done and over with, another check box to tick off on their to-do list.

How does gradually nerfing content that these players have already beat, and beat, and beat, and beat, and beat... ruin it for them? They've already beat it. And beat it. And beat it. The only thing, and I mean the only thing, that nerfing the content does to them is to take away their ability to flaunt their superiority complexes to other people (no more "I'm better than you because I beat T9"), and reduce the number of potential merc sales for clearing T9, etc.

And yeah. Savage Coil. Get titles. That can show off your ability to beat some crazy hard content. And also.. the people who have beat and beat and beat Second Coil will be moving on to Final Coil to do the same thing there, while all the underlings are riding the Echo to clear Second Coil and catch up to the new generation of elitists with "Higher Allagan" gear.

[Parodine]

snip

Savage coil will still provide the unforgiving mechanics to challenge them. I imagine they'll implement the difficulty levels for all turns eventually. We don't know the extent to what changes they will implement to story coil, so speculating is a bit silly.

Regardless of nerfs, the difficulty in this game will never be static, not with the vertical ilvl progression of gear. I'm not sure if they even have a ceiling in a mind, but that is the biggest threat to the difficulty experience, truly.

Even if they made no changes to the first 1-5 turns of Coil, a new group of players in the soon to be common ilvl110 gear would be able to face-roll the vast majority of mechanics. Even without echo on the majority of the Ex fights now, DPS checks are joke.

[Zohnax]

Whatever the current unnerfed raid is. Not to mention challenge is wholly subjective. Coil isn't much of a challenge, it's repetitive and boring. Every boss is an exercise in Simon Says, and it's all mindless wipe mechanics. You know whats a good challenge and fight to me? The bosses in Devil May Cry. Revengence. Shin Megami Tensi games with their fairly complex buff/debuff/weakness systems.

Again, that creates an experience only one group of people will ever experience. Which is terrible game design. We're not talking about CoP and seven years later, we're only talking about a few months.