SE, can you test the damn patch b4 releasing it?

[Hotohori]

I honestly did not want to comment about the MP cost changes but this topic is very clear that there is a situation where both sides of the argument are right. On one side there is an opinion that the change was balanced but this opinion is coming from the side where the player is often rank 50 mage and physical level 50 (character is well developed). The opposing side is in severe dissatisfaction with the change and are often a mage of low to mid rank and not physical level 50. I myself have tested the new cure costs recently and even observed my friend play her rank 13 conjurer with physical level 16 this morning.

My opinion on the MP change is that it is balanced, but not for any character that is not well developed in skills and physical level prior to the change. I have many mp recovery tools at my disposal and excess skill points to distribute to mind if needed. The change of cost to cures did not effect my game play greatly in any way. My friend has 400 hp and 430 mp as I saw today and she was struggling to kill monsters of equal rank and severely slow in mp recovery. She does not have Thaumaturge even unlocked and asking how her stat distribution was set, I realized she did not even have any points to really remove from her other stats to add into vitality or mind.

The MP change was surely not balanced with an underdeveloped character in mind. It was balanced with the ideal of how strongly a factor it would be for a high ranked, high leveled character with optimized skills and gear. My friends gear was very good because I personally crafted them for her and the amount of damage she received at her rank in proportion to the amount of healing she required was not fair in the least. Mages will get hit hard is simply the truth and when soloing, it is a factor that needs to be considered.

The concerns that I have for post 1.19 with the soon removal of the physical level system is that there will be a new wave of low to mid rank mage players who will feel their capabilities have been reduced further through the fact that their formerly physical level 50 characters have only the stat point totals of their rank 20 mage class to spend into attributes. When you have 500 points to allocate onto a rank 20 class, nothing is difficult to kill still honestly regardless of class.

My current opinion about battle post 1.18 would be something like so.
1) Mages are now very inefficient soloists who have the most difficult circumstances of to overcome in battle. Mage classes are now highly dependent on another to ease or make proficient use of time to skill up. (it's overall a lot slower if character is not well developed enough to be self proficient.)
2) Melee classes are overly easy in comparison with increase accuracy and reduced input through auto attack. If I wanted to, my lancer could stand and attack a monster in party and never pull hate by simply not using skills while providing substantial dps for the group. My damage may not be optimized but chances are my emnity will not rise greater then an attentive tank + healer.

Again this is just my opinion from what I felt playing as these classes and could easily be argued by other peoples opinions equally. My mage class ranks are 46 conjurer and 32 thaumaturge while my friend is 13 conjurer with no thaumaturge. Watching her play today reminded me of how hard it was to start as a tarutaru black mage in final fantasy 11 back in 2002 without having a white mage sub job. If you can remember how that experience felt originally back then, you can probably relate to the current situation for a low/underdeveloped mage is feeling now in final fantasy 14 but without a suitable party outlet of experiencing afterwards.

[Misha]

How'd I know it would relate to MP in some way? I have ZERO problems with MP management on my Conjurer during the high end dungeon.

You should probably read what the development team, including the director/producer Yoshida writes -- It was stated 1.18 will feel and look rough as it's literally part 1 of x patches that's being broken down as it's a very large amount of changes they can't do at once.

This and delsus' post after should be enough for any rational person, or do I gotta ask were you expecting something else OP? Anyone following the news knew it wasn't going to be perfect. As for the classes Mages weren't meant to solo everything in the game and they actually take a brain to work now lmao And if you're including archer ... just gotta LoL at you, best single target dd so far, their burst dmg was actually increased. Same goes for Gladiator, without stamina and new hate system keeping hate is a breeze with the amount of abilities you get. Don't be like most of FF 14's population and be anti-social, go out and meet new players outside your LS, you may be surprised at the skill people can play at (Not that it's even remotely hard)!

Everyone knew 1.18 was a foundation that they needed the basics worked out... just cause you realize now that you have to wait for 1.19 for the small balance tweaks when most of us knew this a long time ago (one of the first things announced about 1.18 n 1.19) doesn't make your argument valid.

[DoubleEcho]

The concerns that I have for post 1.19 with the soon removal of the physical level system is that there will be a new wave of low to mid rank mage players who will feel their capabilities have been reduced further through the fact that their formerly physical level 50 characters have only the stat point totals of their rank 20 mage class to spend into attributes. When you have 500 points to allocate onto a rank 20 class, nothing is difficult to kill still honestly regardless of class.

As it is now, if you are Rank 20 CON and Phys level 50, you can't pump all of your points into MND and get the same amount you would as 50 CON. There's a stat point limit per rank.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?foru...242505663&h=50

If you're talking about something different I apologize. But removing physical levels wouldn't make it too much worse I believe. I do think there will be some issues though, especially if they take away the ability to adjust your attribute points. For example there would be a max MP for R50 CON/THM shared by everyone since you won't be able to pump 174 points into MND. But I feel that this is where Materia Crafting will come into play, as +MND gear would be favored by mages.

[Hotohori]

As it is now, if you are Rank 20 CON and Phys level 50, you can't pump all of your points into MND and get the same amount you would as 50 CON. There's a stat point limit per rank.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?foru...242505663&h=50

If you're talking about something different I apologize. But removing physical levels wouldn't make it too much worse I believe. I do think there will be some issues though, especially if they take away the ability to adjust your attribute points. For example there would be a max MP for R50 CON/THM shared by everyone since you won't be able to pump 174 points into MND. But I feel that this is where Materia Crafting will come into play, as +MND gear would be favored by mages.

I'm very aware of the hard caps for HP and MP with vitality and mind but the simple fact is even a rank 20 CON with maximized mind stat for that rank is still a piss poor amount of MP in comparison to the new costs of cure. The amount of stat points for a physical level 20 is no where near the amount you possess as a physical level 50 which is able to at least soft cap every stat for the class with a simple balanced distribution. The removal of physical levels will reduce the total stat points allowed for allocation based on the rank of the class. A rank 20 conjurer will soon have the stat point totals of a physical level 20 to use on that class post 1.19. Also mind and vitality stats attributed from gear and conversion traits currently do not yield any HP or MP.

Basically when physical level is gone, they said that each class total stat points available for distribution will be dependent on the rank of the class instead. Rank 20 conjurer/physical level 50 will soon be rank 20 conjurer/physical level 20 without the physical level part being stated which will be a reduction in power for most players.

[Noir]

I honestly did not want to comment about the MP cost changes but this topic is very clear that there is a situation where both sides of the argument are right. On one side there is an opinion that the change was balanced but this opinion is coming from the side where the player is often rank 50 mage and physical level 50 (character is well developed). The opposing side is in severe dissatisfaction with the change and are often a mage of low to mid rank and not physical level 50. I myself have tested the new cure costs recently and even observed my friend play her rank 13 conjurer with physical level 16 this morning.

My opinion on the MP change is that it is balanced, but not for any character that is not well developed in skills and physical level prior to the change. I have many mp recovery tools at my disposal and excess skill points to distribute to mind if needed. The change of cost to cures did not effect my greatly in any way. My friend has 400 hp and 430 mp as I saw today and she was struggling to kill monsters of equal rank and severely slow in mp recovery. She does not have Thaumaturge even unlocked and asking how her stat distribution was set, I realized she did not even have any points to really remove from her other stats to add into vitality or mind.

The MP change was surely not balanced with an underdeveloped character in mind. It was balanced with the ideal of how strongly a factor it would be for a high ranked, high leveled character with optimized skills and gear. My friends gear was very good because I personally crafted them for her and the amount of damage she received at her rank in proportion to the amount of healing she required was not fair in the least. Mages will get hit hard is simply the truth and when soloing, it is a factor that needs to be considered.

The concerns that I have for post 1.19 with the soon removal of the physical level system is that there will be a new wave of low to mid rank mage players who will feel their capabilities have been reduced further through the fact that their formerly physical level 50 characters have only the stat point totals of their rank 20 mage class to spend into attributes. When you have 500 points to allocate onto a rank 20 class, nothing is difficult to kill still honestly regardless of class.

My current opinion about battle post 1.18 would be something like so.
1) Mages are now very inefficient soloists who have the most difficult circumstances of to overcome in battle. Mage classes are now highly dependent on another to ease or make proficient use of time to skill up. (it's overall a lot slower if character is not well developed enough to be self proficient.)
2) Melee classes are overly easy in comparison with increase accuracy and reduced input through auto attack. If I wanted to, my lancer could stand and attack a monster in party and never pull hate by simply not using skills while providing substantial dps for the group. My damage may not be optimized but chances are my emnity will not rise greater then an attentive tank + healer.

Again this is just my opinion from what I felt playing as these classes and could easily be argued by other peoples opinions equally. My mage class ranks are 46 conjurer and 32 thaumaturge while my friend is 13 conjurer with no thaumaturge. Watching her play today reminded me of how hard it was to start as a tarutaru black mage in final fantasy 11 back in 2002 without having a white mage sub job. If you can remember how that experience felt originally back then, you can probably relate to the current situation for a low/underdeveloped mage is feeling now in final fantasy 14 but without a suitable party outlet of experiencing afterwards.

It's not good either with lvl 50/50. That I can tell. Worse for developing chars. I just ask. Why change what's working for 70% of te users, and then add mana pots and mana gear with materia? Just to try to fix what's working.? It doesn't make any sense for me, and I bet that's what they will do.

[YUGON]

What kind of lame excuse is that? The past patches were fine. They added content. And did a few tweaks. You don't throw up at people's face, deep bugged changes just like that without losing $$ players. If you can't launch a proper patch, keep up the few tweaks and addin content until the deep changes are tested in a test server by us, players and then release live. You dont feel mp management because you play in a full party. You are 30%. the other 70% that have a life and work, felt it. If the basic thing as animations bug, doesn't affect you, I feel sorry for you. It's like you go to a restaurant and order a pizza and it comes with a hair from who knows where. You just put the hair aside and eat the pizza, since it still taste like pizza right?

Huh?? I think you downloaded exclusive patches, because I don't call some NM's "content".

Dungeons are content, Companies are content, even the new Battle System may be called content, since you need some time to make with it.

[Kajika]

It's sounds stupid as the title, but nonetheless it's true. How can you release a patch with all the aforementioned problems , unbalanced classes, dumbed down classes?

I'm tired of looking my shield float in middle air while buffing and doing Michael jackson's moonwalking while I change my weapon while walking!

1.19, better solve all thEse problems and mp consumption...

Most of what you list are not issues. They are side-effects from deliberate changes made. Do you really think they didn't test and that if they would have they would have found the "issue" that the classes were dumbed down? The class setup is deliberate. Class balancing will be ongoing (read release notes). Also, they gave us the ability to change weapons while walking but said the moonwalking is a known issue that will get resolved later (read release notes). Would you have rather they not give us that feature? Ever play EQ2 where it always has done that for years? At least they said it is short term (release notes). Oh, did you read release notes?

[Raim]

Probably because it was rushed because everyone here said "GOGOGO FASTER! NOW!" every day.

[LuxLex]

Hotohori, I just wanted to thank you for the fair and rational post, and most of all, for taking the time to examine the effects of this patch on a lower ranked player.

[Holy-Mary]

What kind of lame excuse is that? The past patches were fine. They added content. And did a few tweaks. You don't throw up at people's face, deep bugged changes just like that without losing $$ players. If you can't launch a proper patch, keep up the few tweaks and addin content until the deep changes are tested in a test server by us, players and then release live. You dont feel mp management because you play in a full party. You are 30%. the other 70% that have a life and work, felt it. If the basic thing as animations bug, doesn't affect you, I feel sorry for you. It's like you go to a restaurant and order a pizza and it comes with a hair from who knows where. You just put the hair aside and eat the pizza, since it still taste like pizza right?

I just came back in the game because of all these changes .... Now the game is starting to be a real Mmorpg with some challenge and not anymore a Fucking joke for casual ....

I remember being main healer with my "Marauder" the game was so fucked up ... it was even easier than world of warcraft ... lol

Glad they fixed it ! and if you are leaving , a lot people like me that left the game because it was too easy , will come back and take your place !