[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

[Iamapathy]

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When the Summons were used by every player in final fantasy game it was also the time where every character used FIRE and FIRGA. So does that mean a black mage identity wasnt clear in the past final fantasy games? I guess not, and same goes for summoner.

[Delily]

When the Summons were used by every player in final fantasy game it was also the time where every character used FIRE and FIRGA. So does that mean a black mage identity wasnt clear in the past final fantasy games? I guess not, and same goes for summoner.

I believe the only named summoners are Rydia and Yuna, neither of which was "just" a summoner. They had other roles as well (blm and whm). Also, it's the ones in which everyone could summon, you didn't JUST summon, you'd pair it with another skill. 5 comes readily to mind. There has never been a FFXI where all a summoner did was summon, except for FFXI. This whole post is nothing more than a desire to implement FFXI summoners in FFXIV, which would not work.

[Iamapathy]

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So basically Rydia and Yuna were summoners with additional skills from other jobs, while in Tactics and FFXI summoner was totally pet based class with identity artifact. So it has been 50/50 as far as history concerned between SMN being a pet based job and mixed job. Using this as a reference doesnt favor the mixed SMN class to persist.

[Razard]

So basically Rydia and Yuna were summoners with additional skills from other jobs, while in Tactics and FFXI summoner was totally pet based class with identity artifact. So it has been 50/50 as far as history concerned between SMN being a pet based job and mixed job. Using this as a reference doesnt favor the mixed SMN class to persist.

Tactics Summoner wasn't a pet class. It was the school of Fancy Black Mage Spell with the odd heal/Buff/Status summon. They where also not that useful due to horrendous cast times, further confounded by the fact you couldn't use them for the Arithmatic/Calculator skill.

Also Eiko Carol and Garnet Til Alexandros where of the mixed type. The White Mage/ Summoner Variety.

[Iamapathy]

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You are wrong about SMN in tactics, it was a top pick if you are trying to form your "best team" a SMN is a must with a wizard.

And I agree with you that all previous FF aside from FFXI the pet role was to hit and run or as you put it "fancy BLM spell", but if we are porting this into an MMO it could never be applicable, then the only choices we have is to make it an appropriate Pet class or ........ yes you guessed it, a DOT class for no particular reason using BLM spells.

[Razard]

You are wrong about SMN in tactics, it was a top pick if you are trying to form your "best team" a SMN is a must with a wizard.

No.

If someone asks you what the best casting class in FFT is and your answer isn't Wizard/Black Mage with the Math/Arithmatics skill you are wrong sir.

And best team? Cid. Just Cid.

[Mimilu]

If someone asks you what the best casting class in FFT is and your answer isn't Wizard/Black Mage with the Math/Arithmatics skill you are wrong sir.

Dancer was the best class in Tactics because of spinning. :-D

[Delily]

then the only choices we have is to make it an appropriate Pet class or ........ yes you guessed it, a DOT class for no particular reason using BLM spells.

How many MMOs have you played? Outside of FFXI andFFXIV? The summoner in this game is implemented as the caster pet archetype. Let's take a look:
- Necromancer in EverQuest
- Cabalist/spirtmaster/enchanter in Dark Age of Camelot
- Spiritmaster in Aion
- Necromancer et. all in Rift
They're all "mages with pets". They have a pet, but they can also heal, buff, debuff, do damage etc. The only 2 mage pets classes I am aware of that break this archetype are the summoner in FFXI and the necromancer in DAoC. The summoner in FFXIV is implemented as an appropriate pet class, UNLESS you want the one where you train your pet, which is the hunter in WoW.

[dday3six]

You are wrong about SMN in tactics, it was a top pick if you are trying to form your "best team" a SMN is a must with a wizard.

Tactics as in the original PS1 game? Summoner was awful due to overly long casting times, and mediocre damage. The best team abused OP NPC's, 97 Brave and 3 Faith, Haste and Speed, Dual Wield, Throw, Blade Grasp and the Calculator job. It pretty much cleared any encounter before a Summoner could even finish a cast. If a player was nose to the grindstone, they could even powerlevel most of it from punching your own party on the first node, once they got access to the map.

[Iamapathy]

To think of it, I think the best way to maintain the overall identity of SMN is to allow him to use Elemental Spirits as Pets, and assign Geomancer's spells to the Spirits accordingly. And allow SMN to have long timer (or any other condition) on an actual summoning spell for the Primals for a hit-and-run spell type or to fight on the field for a limited period. This to assure a way for SMN to have his burst damage when needed and also to keep him useful throughout the game. At least for SMN to be close to a Geomancer is better than a DOT BLM.