[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

[Estevo]

We aren't a beast master, we don't have living breathing pets. We have a fragment of power from a thing from another dimension that wants to murder us all

Titan-Egi saved our lives. Besides primals have feelings too!

[Iamapathy]

snip

So basically Rydia and Yuna were summoners with additional skills from other jobs, while in Tactics and FFXI summoner was totally pet based class with identity artifact. So it has been 50/50 as far as history concerned between SMN being a pet based job and mixed job. Using this as a reference doesnt favor the mixed SMN class to persist.

[Razard]

So basically Rydia and Yuna were summoners with additional skills from other jobs, while in Tactics and FFXI summoner was totally pet based class with identity artifact. So it has been 50/50 as far as history concerned between SMN being a pet based job and mixed job. Using this as a reference doesnt favor the mixed SMN class to persist.

Tactics Summoner wasn't a pet class. It was the school of Fancy Black Mage Spell with the odd heal/Buff/Status summon. They where also not that useful due to horrendous cast times, further confounded by the fact you couldn't use them for the Arithmatic/Calculator skill.

Also Eiko Carol and Garnet Til Alexandros where of the mixed type. The White Mage/ Summoner Variety.

[Iamapathy]

snip

You are wrong about SMN in tactics, it was a top pick if you are trying to form your "best team" a SMN is a must with a wizard.

And I agree with you that all previous FF aside from FFXI the pet role was to hit and run or as you put it "fancy BLM spell", but if we are porting this into an MMO it could never be applicable, then the only choices we have is to make it an appropriate Pet class or ........ yes you guessed it, a DOT class for no particular reason using BLM spells.

[Iamapathy]

To think of it, I think the best way to maintain the overall identity of SMN is to allow him to use Elemental Spirits as Pets, and assign Geomancer's spells to the Spirits accordingly. And allow SMN to have long timer (or any other condition) on an actual summoning spell for the Primals for a hit-and-run spell type or to fight on the field for a limited period. This to assure a way for SMN to have his burst damage when needed and also to keep him useful throughout the game. At least for SMN to be close to a Geomancer is better than a DOT BLM.

[Madoka]

SMN in Tactics was trash.
SMN in Tactics Advance was only good as a sub for a Red Mage with dualcast.

Summoner in past games will not be in FFXIV. We will not be a glorified BLM with long cast times.

[Dyvid]

Fudge it. It's put up or shut up time. I posted this in the London Fan Fest ask the Devs. If you really want an answer like the post.
This is still a hot topic on the general discussion and dps role forums. Can you please explain the reason for the design of Summoner's Egi and would you ever consider changing it?

[Dwill]

Yes Dwill if a job is not done right it has to be remade, if this will affect scholar then further work is to be made from SE. We are not here to save them development costs, all jobs must be satisfying for this game to be enjoyable in all aspects. One of the major flaws of FFXIV (the original) is the lost identity of classes! e.g. conjurer being whm/blm etc.. which made SE admit to the fact that they need to return jobs again. Summoner is currently the only job suffering this identity issue and it cannot be ignored.

Except that the identity issue is an illusion made up by people who don't seem to grasp that summoner never had a fixed identity to begin with :

Which role ?

• The White Mage with AoE Nukes ?
• The White Mage with a one trick pony for summons ?
• The Black Mage with high MP cost AoE Nukes that were nearly never used ?
• The one that took them forever to cast for "Meh" damage ?
• The jack of all trade, master of none ?
• The ones where every body could summon them based on nothing but the player's choice ?
  
• The one where the near entire pool of summons is close to useless ?
• The one where you had nearly no control over and you lose everyone but the one who summons it ?

Go on, take your pick.

[Razard]

You are wrong about SMN in tactics, it was a top pick if you are trying to form your "best team" a SMN is a must with a wizard.

No.

If someone asks you what the best casting class in FFT is and your answer isn't Wizard/Black Mage with the Math/Arithmatics skill you are wrong sir.

And best team? Cid. Just Cid.

[Delily]

then the only choices we have is to make it an appropriate Pet class or ........ yes you guessed it, a DOT class for no particular reason using BLM spells.

How many MMOs have you played? Outside of FFXI andFFXIV? The summoner in this game is implemented as the caster pet archetype. Let's take a look:
- Necromancer in EverQuest
- Cabalist/spirtmaster/enchanter in Dark Age of Camelot
- Spiritmaster in Aion
- Necromancer et. all in Rift
They're all "mages with pets". They have a pet, but they can also heal, buff, debuff, do damage etc. The only 2 mage pets classes I am aware of that break this archetype are the summoner in FFXI and the necromancer in DAoC. The summoner in FFXIV is implemented as an appropriate pet class, UNLESS you want the one where you train your pet, which is the hunter in WoW.