Tier List

[Skeet]

@ Vaeria, please do tell why you think BLM stands at the top.

Interesting thread~ First off, Atreus's numbers are VERY believable. Considering that pld is at the absolute bottom of the killme-list, ALL plds SHOULD be getting these numbers. Higher survivability, way less pressure = way more time to stay engaged and dog your targets.

While his numbers are believable, there are certain obvious requirements that must be met. One being that you're constantly engaged. No running around from point to point minus the initial time to run to a spot. The second requirement being the opposing team and his own team are full of healers keeping each other alive. There is no way in hell a PLD can do 100k+ dps otherwise. And on the off chance a PLD says they hit over 100k dps without having those two requirements met, then both teams engaged must really suck and don't have the skill to kill people off.

-Also, it is good to take note that if a PLD is doing these numbers, they aren't playing their class right. If you want to DPS, then play a DPS class. Sure you don't get hit a lot as a PLD, but you sure as hell won't do as much damage as an actual DPS class.

-I've also tried pushing DPS for fun as a PLD and my damage averages somewhere between 60-85k. This includes running from point to point and playing FL like its supposed to be played; not fighting in one spot like an enlarged version of WD. Only times I've ever hit over 100k as it were the times when the other teams had 6+ WHM's, which in itself is very rare.

[Atreus]

While his numbers are believable, there are certain obvious requirements that must be met.

Already made a post describing the match. (1) There was a lot of travel time. (2) We were dealing with two parties in 2+ waves before said travel. Sorry but your "requirements" weren't met. What then?

Also, it is good to take note that if a PLD is doing these numbers, they aren't playing their class right. If you want to DPS, then play a DPS class. Sure you don't get hit a lot as a PLD, but you sure as hell won't do as much damage as an actual DPS class.

Lol you're a bold one. Please explain to me what playing the class right entails? Are you about to say "protect ur pt cover ur healur stun all the pplz!"? If so, move right along. It's very simple to carry out your job's function and keep your damage going. Incredibly simple.

And on the off chance a PLD says they hit over 100k dps without having those two requirements met, then both teams engaged must really suck and don't have the skill to kill people off.

Exceeept it was my premade. All DPS and our MRD actually trumped my damage even if only by a small amount (except one BRD, for reasons beyond his control). Point of the original post is to demonstrate PLD's ability to contribute those large numbers if played and spec'd right. I'm noticing a pattern in the replies though. General support coming from the ones that can do it or come quite close, and almost angry skepticism coming from the ones who can't.

[Skeet]

First off, I don't know what's with the aggressive attitude, but I didn't say anything negative about you till now. As I said before, I also DPS on PLD from time to time.

Already made a post describing the match. (1) There was a lot of travel time. (2) We were dealing with two parties in 2+ waves before said travel. Sorry but your "requirements" weren't met. What then?

1) A lot of travel time? Doubtful if a PLD hits 100k+. Very doubtful. Traveling from spawn to one location isn't "a lot" of travel time, FYI. But hey, I could be wrong. Prove it with a video then of your character "traveling a lot" Mr. Paladin.
2) So you were dealing with 2 parties against your 1 party? Am I assuming this right? If so, two things:

A) Very doubtful a team of 2 parties couldn't kill your 1 party team. If they didn't then they must've sucked.
B) You never included whether or not who won in this battle, but assuming your party of 1 beat 2 parties together, then a caster LB must have been involved. There's no realistic way for a team of 2 full parties to lose to only 1 party without caster LB being involved. But , back to the point now. In the case a caster LB was used and your group won against said party of 2, then that just DROPS the possibility of your PLD hitting high DPS as most of the enemy parties would be dead and picked off by the rest of your team.

Lol you're a bold one. Please explain to me what playing the class right entails? Are you about to say "protect ur pt cover ur healur stun all the pplz!"? If so, move right along. It's very simple to carry out your job's function and keep your damage going. Incredibly simple.

Whose job is it to DPS? A tank? If so, move right along.

-That's all I really need to say to counter your "argument".

But I will take the bait and counter your argument, which really isn't necessary. If you think you can stun-lock multiple targets and STILL keep DPS, then lol. To any real PLD's, any and all of them will notice a good drop in their DPS if they focus on stun-locking targets as opposed to focusing on JUST DPS'ing. A PLD's stun skill goes from 4 seconds to 2 seconds to 1 second. If you use an offensive skill in between stun times, you won't be able to effectively stun-lock the healer as they have a good chance to push you back and heal. Keep in mind this is without the fact that you gotta wait for your skill's cooldown to circle back in order to perform another action. This is 9 seconds of damage wasted. You know, because your stun skill does hardly any damage as compared to your regular attack skills. That's 9 extra seconds that could've been used to use skills that actually deal damage

-It's very simple to notice. Incredibly simple.

Exceeept it was my premade. All DPS and our MRD actually trumped my damage even if only by a small amount (except one BRD, for reasons beyond his control). Point of the original post is to demonstrate PLD's ability to contribute those large numbers if played and spec'd right. I'm noticing a pattern in the replies though. General support coming from the ones that can do it or come quite close, and almost angry skepticism coming from the ones who can't.

You missed the larger picture, and my point for that matter, and retorted with very badly hidden implied insults. (Yes, I know insults are very hip these days to forumers)

Yes, PLD's are capable of hitting those numbers. But that isn't my point. Like I said earlier, which you conveniently discarded from my original post:

If you want to DPS, then play a DPS class. Sure you don't get hit a lot as a PLD, but you sure as hell won't do as much damage as an actual DPS class.

The DPS potential in every DPS class will always be higher than a class meant to be a tank. Under the same circumstances, including both PLD's and DPS's not being hit, a PLD will never reach the same dps potential as any DPS class.

[Vaeria]

...not trying to start a war here Skeet but I'm curious: Did you play Wolves Den or begin with Frontlines? (not trying to be sarcastic at all That question you asked 'Whose job is it to DPS-a tank?', kinda leads me to believe you haven't, which would explain a bit. But if you have, surely you've noticed tanks (WD-wise, specifically MARs turned WAR) have some of the most crushing damage of all, EEEASILY over standard DPS. And why? BECAUSE they're tanks. Properly geared str/super-aggressive tanks make for some of the best dps of all simply because they have the advantage of, unlike standard dps who get hounded, not being bothered with until everyone else is cleared out. What plds lose in terms of straight dps to melees, they gain in terms of extended ability to engage. Your agruement seems to push aside this point (and yes, I'm aware of your saying 'If' both lasted as long) Even so, was under the impression this debate was to establish the validity of Atreus' numbers in light of the doubt you cast upon them, not about the practicalness of leaving a DPS's job to a DPS. Where did that come from at all lol?

[Vaeria]

Atreus said in his post (2pts in 2+ waves) which, until he clarifies, can be interpreted as 1 pt fought, killed, then fought again, or 2 pts of say adders vs 2 pts of flames. W/e the case, extended engagements (even with 3 enemy healers, let alone 6 lol) aren't rare at all, making those numbers possible for any number of reasons. Poor target priority on the part of melees, unability to focus target, w/e. I've broken 100k myself as lol-brd simply because for w/e reason people forgot about me during healfests, so its no surprise, again, that a pld could go on and on.

[Skeet]

...not trying to start a war here Skeet but I'm curious: Did you play Wolves Den or begin with Frontlines? (not trying to be sarcastic at all That question you asked 'Whose job is it to DPS-a tank?', kinda leads me to believe you haven't, which would explain a bit. But if you have, surely you've noticed tanks (WD-wise, specifically MARs turned WAR) have some of the most crushing damage of all, EEEASILY over standard DPS. And why? BECAUSE they're tanks. Properly geared str/super-aggressive tanks make for some of the best dps of all simply because they have the advantage of, unlike standard dps who get hounded, not being bothered with until everyone else is cleared out. What plds lose in terms of straight dps to melees, they gain in terms of extended ability to engage. Your agruement seems to push aside this point (and yes, I'm aware of your saying 'If' both lasted as long)

I started in WD as a BLM and used SMN/PLD as an alt whenever I wanted to switch things around or whenever my premade wanted to switch classes. Started off solo queuing though sinceI didn't really meet anyone that liked PvP back then. I started back when they allowed 2 range classes to be in the same team.

Even so, was under the impression this debate was to establish the validity of Atreus' numbers in light of the doubt you cast upon them, not about the practicalness of leaving a DPS's job to a DPS. Where did that come from at all lol?

No? I never doubted his numbers. If you read carefully, I never mentioned his name. My original post was to PLD's in general.