Tier List

[Atreus]

Bruh,bruh. All SE has to do is remove positional requirements for melees so we can top charts consistently. If Ninja is suppose to be less positional requirements it'd be way better in terms of damage in comparison to mnk and drg.

Lol would be nice, I just figured I'd catch a lot of "getgud" from people.

[Vaeria]

Considering WD is currently...dormant, which is another matter entirely, the above are just the thoughts for FL. Just a few explainations- BLMs 'left unchecked' can aoe sleep (better than smn bind since even targets directly in front can't be attacked still while up), flare, and LB. Just from personal observation but seen enough consistant times where blm dps is over smns (at least on Primal) to feel this way.

SCH vs WHM. Again...just from personal experience, I can't understand why people say whm is superior to sch (at least in FL) Perhaps many of em don't know how to effectively utilize their job's burst capabilities? (why I say drg > mnk easily) Assuming attunment's not up, once a whm gets stunned, it can be burned VERY easily (or just interrupts in place of stuns) SCHs...do not suffer from this problem. Good ol EoS to save the day. Once he dies that second time tho...

[LiveVoltage]

I would have to agree with WHM being the most OP on frontlines. You get 3+ in the middle of a fight and nothing on the opposing side save them and they become a terror to mow down when you have multiple healers that can raise.

DRG I would rank as 4 or 5 onthe OP's scale. True, they don't have anything that makes them a valuable asset but they have a ton of utility and are great for mowing down mages who try and sprint away to avoid damage. As I recall, they can have two TP regen skills. One is standard to their class and one is PvP locked but they both restore 500tp each. Simply cast those as soon as you sprint and watch as the healers and mages squirm when they cant get away.

This provides a great tactical asset as it prevents mages from doing timed cast skills save they haven't used their insta-cast skills, greatly hindering the amount of support they can typically provide.

Dragoon in general has alot of skills for PvP that make it a great mage slayer so go figure. :I

[Vaeria]

As for brd, its got a bad rep merely because 80% (probably higher) of the brds currently in PvP started out with FL and have no instinctive programing to position themselves correctly at all times (course 101 via WD) I feel like donating a free kill to the opposing team everytime I hear some idiot teammate bitch about me or another brd not standing on the flag while attacking, but newer brds who don't do their research pick up on this and throw positioning out the window. Theres also the fact that we have 2 completely useless mp abilities (if your team needs mp THAT bad beyond battle voice > ballad during downtime, they're hitting the wrong targets and deserve to be killed) and a 'healer LB', all which give the assumption we're only good for 'ticking the mages.' Hence, #9. (For the record, theres no such thing as the brd's burst phase or 900+ farshots! *inserts final line of The Usual Suspects.*

[Houston009]

Monk #8? These tier lists really do have no merit.

[tehomegaking]

3.DRG (if he really, and I mean REALLY knows what he's doing)

+1 To you.

I'm glad someone actually realizes that dragoon is one of the absolute best. Dragoon is designed for pvp. Crazy on command burst, burst is everything in pvp and dragoon has all the tools to apply it. Two gap closers, fetterward, weapon throw, and elusive jump (which is priceless). Opening burst is in excess of 8k+ damage in a little over 10 seconds in i80, 2 guaranteed interrupts via stun. Dragoon is an absolute machine.

That being said, it's no wonder most see it as an average class, the skill ceiling is too high for most and as such they all suck. There is 2 on primal that are god level though.

[Skeet]

@ Vaeria, please do tell why you think BLM stands at the top.

Interesting thread~ First off, Atreus's numbers are VERY believable. Considering that pld is at the absolute bottom of the killme-list, ALL plds SHOULD be getting these numbers. Higher survivability, way less pressure = way more time to stay engaged and dog your targets.

While his numbers are believable, there are certain obvious requirements that must be met. One being that you're constantly engaged. No running around from point to point minus the initial time to run to a spot. The second requirement being the opposing team and his own team are full of healers keeping each other alive. There is no way in hell a PLD can do 100k+ dps otherwise. And on the off chance a PLD says they hit over 100k dps without having those two requirements met, then both teams engaged must really suck and don't have the skill to kill people off.

-Also, it is good to take note that if a PLD is doing these numbers, they aren't playing their class right. If you want to DPS, then play a DPS class. Sure you don't get hit a lot as a PLD, but you sure as hell won't do as much damage as an actual DPS class.

-I've also tried pushing DPS for fun as a PLD and my damage averages somewhere between 60-85k. This includes running from point to point and playing FL like its supposed to be played; not fighting in one spot like an enlarged version of WD. Only times I've ever hit over 100k as it were the times when the other teams had 6+ WHM's, which in itself is very rare.

[Atreus]

While his numbers are believable, there are certain obvious requirements that must be met.

Already made a post describing the match. (1) There was a lot of travel time. (2) We were dealing with two parties in 2+ waves before said travel. Sorry but your "requirements" weren't met. What then?

Also, it is good to take note that if a PLD is doing these numbers, they aren't playing their class right. If you want to DPS, then play a DPS class. Sure you don't get hit a lot as a PLD, but you sure as hell won't do as much damage as an actual DPS class.

Lol you're a bold one. Please explain to me what playing the class right entails? Are you about to say "protect ur pt cover ur healur stun all the pplz!"? If so, move right along. It's very simple to carry out your job's function and keep your damage going. Incredibly simple.

And on the off chance a PLD says they hit over 100k dps without having those two requirements met, then both teams engaged must really suck and don't have the skill to kill people off.

Exceeept it was my premade. All DPS and our MRD actually trumped my damage even if only by a small amount (except one BRD, for reasons beyond his control). Point of the original post is to demonstrate PLD's ability to contribute those large numbers if played and spec'd right. I'm noticing a pattern in the replies though. General support coming from the ones that can do it or come quite close, and almost angry skepticism coming from the ones who can't.

[Skeet]

First off, I don't know what's with the aggressive attitude, but I didn't say anything negative about you till now. As I said before, I also DPS on PLD from time to time.

Already made a post describing the match. (1) There was a lot of travel time. (2) We were dealing with two parties in 2+ waves before said travel. Sorry but your "requirements" weren't met. What then?

1) A lot of travel time? Doubtful if a PLD hits 100k+. Very doubtful. Traveling from spawn to one location isn't "a lot" of travel time, FYI. But hey, I could be wrong. Prove it with a video then of your character "traveling a lot" Mr. Paladin.
2) So you were dealing with 2 parties against your 1 party? Am I assuming this right? If so, two things:

A) Very doubtful a team of 2 parties couldn't kill your 1 party team. If they didn't then they must've sucked.
B) You never included whether or not who won in this battle, but assuming your party of 1 beat 2 parties together, then a caster LB must have been involved. There's no realistic way for a team of 2 full parties to lose to only 1 party without caster LB being involved. But , back to the point now. In the case a caster LB was used and your group won against said party of 2, then that just DROPS the possibility of your PLD hitting high DPS as most of the enemy parties would be dead and picked off by the rest of your team.

Lol you're a bold one. Please explain to me what playing the class right entails? Are you about to say "protect ur pt cover ur healur stun all the pplz!"? If so, move right along. It's very simple to carry out your job's function and keep your damage going. Incredibly simple.

Whose job is it to DPS? A tank? If so, move right along.

-That's all I really need to say to counter your "argument".

But I will take the bait and counter your argument, which really isn't necessary. If you think you can stun-lock multiple targets and STILL keep DPS, then lol. To any real PLD's, any and all of them will notice a good drop in their DPS if they focus on stun-locking targets as opposed to focusing on JUST DPS'ing. A PLD's stun skill goes from 4 seconds to 2 seconds to 1 second. If you use an offensive skill in between stun times, you won't be able to effectively stun-lock the healer as they have a good chance to push you back and heal. Keep in mind this is without the fact that you gotta wait for your skill's cooldown to circle back in order to perform another action. This is 9 seconds of damage wasted. You know, because your stun skill does hardly any damage as compared to your regular attack skills. That's 9 extra seconds that could've been used to use skills that actually deal damage

-It's very simple to notice. Incredibly simple.

Exceeept it was my premade. All DPS and our MRD actually trumped my damage even if only by a small amount (except one BRD, for reasons beyond his control). Point of the original post is to demonstrate PLD's ability to contribute those large numbers if played and spec'd right. I'm noticing a pattern in the replies though. General support coming from the ones that can do it or come quite close, and almost angry skepticism coming from the ones who can't.

You missed the larger picture, and my point for that matter, and retorted with very badly hidden implied insults. (Yes, I know insults are very hip these days to forumers)

Yes, PLD's are capable of hitting those numbers. But that isn't my point. Like I said earlier, which you conveniently discarded from my original post:

If you want to DPS, then play a DPS class. Sure you don't get hit a lot as a PLD, but you sure as hell won't do as much damage as an actual DPS class.

The DPS potential in every DPS class will always be higher than a class meant to be a tank. Under the same circumstances, including both PLD's and DPS's not being hit, a PLD will never reach the same dps potential as any DPS class.

[Vaeria]

...not trying to start a war here Skeet but I'm curious: Did you play Wolves Den or begin with Frontlines? (not trying to be sarcastic at all That question you asked 'Whose job is it to DPS-a tank?', kinda leads me to believe you haven't, which would explain a bit. But if you have, surely you've noticed tanks (WD-wise, specifically MARs turned WAR) have some of the most crushing damage of all, EEEASILY over standard DPS. And why? BECAUSE they're tanks. Properly geared str/super-aggressive tanks make for some of the best dps of all simply because they have the advantage of, unlike standard dps who get hounded, not being bothered with until everyone else is cleared out. What plds lose in terms of straight dps to melees, they gain in terms of extended ability to engage. Your agruement seems to push aside this point (and yes, I'm aware of your saying 'If' both lasted as long) Even so, was under the impression this debate was to establish the validity of Atreus' numbers in light of the doubt you cast upon them, not about the practicalness of leaving a DPS's job to a DPS. Where did that come from at all lol?