Please be considerate to newer players!

[Ashkendor]

I once had a Titan HM with someone who decided to go off on me for dying. I pointed out that they died multiple times. He said it was because he did so much damage that the tank couldn't hold it.

I'm still trying to figure out why that's something to brag about.

It's not. It's basically saying "I'm a bad DPS that doesn't know how to throttle back for a less geared tank."

[Venos]

Just when I thought I heard it all. Just a fews minutes ago, this BLM in DF just straight up told the tank to leave because he was tanking with a controller... WHHHHAAATTT?!!!

[SummonerSenah]

To sum up the sentiment in this topic
"Don't tell me to speed up, but let me tell you to slow down"

I understand the sentiment behind that. The thing is, it's easier for someone who's overgeared/experienced to slow down than it is for someone who's undergeared/unexperienced to suddenly be neither so that a speed run is possible. An i90 player can't suddenly turn into i110, but an i110 player can easily slow down to a pace that an i90 can comfortably handle.

[MicahZerrshia]

New to tanking

Nope

By lvl 50 you should be well versed in how to tank. If you want to fate farm your way to 50 you're going to get a crash course and have to deal with a lot of rage which is no ones fault but your own.

If you didn't learn your job by using fates, hunting logs and leves instead of your insta-queue tank dungeons (which are better exp by far anyway) don't expect a df group to coddle you, instead get some fc members together and learn your rotations and abilities that way.

I am more than happy to give tips about a particular dungeon to someone who has never been before. Like the tank I walked through AK last week since it was his first time through. I covered tactics and which mobs to skip but he knew how to play his job and it was all good.

Just like in life don't come to a job unprepared and under skilled. You are not going to get a trophy just for showing up.

[Coldheart]

That is so true.

But don't tell the speed runners. They will hate you and me and everyone else that tells them to slow down. I've seen these crazy fools vote kick a healer because, after the firs boss on SV HM, the healer was telling them to slow and needed some time to recharge MP, but they went ahead aggroed the mobs and wiped the party.

I play HM dungeons as healer (WHM) e sometimes I have problems to heal runners (once the tank was wearing DPS gear). I try to do my best, but I don't feel guilt if a runner dies because he/she did a huge pull and died before I could heal.

[myahele]

Yeah, speedrunners are one of the reasons why some people stop going to DF as a tank or healer.

I once queue inprogress and they were in the last boss for Wanderers Palace. They were glad that a "real" tank showed up due to me having 8000+ hp while the previous only had 4000. Here I was thinking: wow the tank must've been fresh 50 and not be fully myth geared like me and suffered abuse from these folks to quite in the last boss.

I queue in progress for not only getting quick clears, but also to help just in case a tank had to leave since I know how it feels waiting on a tank as a dps or healer. Now I don't know if I wanna risk helping such rude people.

I've done hundreds of dungeons and only encountered a few of these horror stories. So I'm lucky I guess.

[Cynfael]

A tank no more controls the pace, than a healer or the DPS in the group.

The tank absolutely controls the pace of the dungeon in all cases except when a tanking role is not truly necessary; players tend to follow behind the tank. Only the healer has nearly as much control, and "nearly" only because a recalcitrant healer is easier to replace. DPS are easily replaceable and sometimes not even missed if not replaced.

Also, wanting to speedrun is not synonymous with being inconsiderate or hating new players. I understand wanting to advocate for new players, but A) the baby Eorzeans outgrow their training pants faster and less traumatically than you think, and B) constantly making insulting assumptions about the community at large isn't helping your case for a kinder, gentler MMO. You hate elitists and whatever you perceive to be exclusionary practices...we all got that about 50 posts ago....

[NyarukoW]

... Only the healer has nearly as much control, and "nearly" only because a recalcitrant healer is easier to replace. DPS are easily replaceable and sometimes not even missed if not replaced.

Replacing players is by no means to determine whether the tank, dps, or healer controls the pace. You can replace everyone you get and still wipe on the same mobs over and over and still get nowhere fast. Tanks lead, but they do not set the pace by any stretch of the imagination. The tank that runs ahead and gets themselves killed can be replaced by the 3 others just as easily. Under no circumstances should other player feel compelled to follow a tank into their folly.

As I've said before, the speed run itself is neutral, but the problem is the speedrunner that want to force people to do things their way, and usually do so without any discussion. Because to discuss it is by some of their definition no longer a speed run. They don't want to explain anything, communicate, or coordinate. They think all the other players are just NPC running a script to suit them, i.e. taking all the other players for granted. I don't insult or make assumptions about the community at large ever, in just seem that when the speedrunners gets called out for their bad behavior, they are not happy.

[Cynfael]

Snip.

I don't think you get the concept of pacing in a dungeon.

If the tank doesn't want to speed run, you are not having one; if the tank insists on speed running, the group can either follow or not progress at all. If the healer isn't ready to move, no one is moving; if one or sometimes even both DPS fail to move, they can catch up, because no one needs to wait for them.

[NyarukoW]

I don't think you get the concept of pacing in a dungeon. ...

I don't think you understand the reality of speedrunners trying to force a speed run in dungeon. If tank is not ready (geared, experienced or otherwise) for a speed run, the healer and/or the DPS will pull mobs for the tank and then verbally abuse the tank about not flashing or what not, like what the OP talked about at the start of this thread. Or they move to vote kick the tank, it has all happened and still continues to happen.

BTW if the healer or dps don't want to speedrun, you are not getting one either. The time you spend trying to replace them or going without one means time lost and it is no longer a speedrun anyways. Time spent wiping by forcing a speedrun also leads to effectively not having a speedrun.