Now that Nexus is out... still a good idea to put piety on Blm Novus or no?

[StouterTaru]

So we're agreed then. Except you haven't then explained where you're losing INT to get PIE. Two melded i90s?

HQ Cashmere Hat Of Casting - 18 INT
High Allagan Mask Of Casting - 24 INT

Head/Hands/Feet are each a loss of 6 INT, max at 11 PIE
Belt/Accessories are each a loss of 5 INT, max at 8 PIE

The eps parsing was done last year comparing 5 fire rotation to 6 fire rotation and it ended up that 5 stronger fires even at ilvl 90 had higher dps. That is if I'm remembering the timeline correctly.

I don't remember ever seeing that, and even so the gear is a lot different now than it was then. It takes a whole lot less now to hit enough MP than it did in 2.0

[Alistaire]

Hmm, pie caps on ariyala site are off then.

We should just make a thread saying since SE started putting acc on healer gear, they should put PIE on caster gear.

[HaroldSaxon]

Get the burrs out of your rears, numbers this small only mean something if you use a parser and can easily be wiped out by RNG or human error. Sure, you can always say 1dps more is 1dps more. But you know, as I do, that there is no practical or real life difference between these numbers. No one will ever notice you doing 1dps more or less w/o running that parser, and in the end the monster will be dead at the same time anyways.

By your same argument it doesn't matter if someone puts points in skillspeed on BLM because its only a small dps loss

Casting Blizzard I drops your dps by as much as standing still not casting anything for almost a full second.

You still have the ability to cast B1 after T2 if you get a slow UI tick, it will just happen much less often.

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And while we're at it, higher spell speed doesn't make you get interrupted fewer times, it increases the number of spells you crank out, so you are interrupted a lower percentage of your cast time.

6 fire rotation only takes 369 PIE, that's only a loss of 11 INT and ~10 secondary stats in a party with SCH. Yes, that does include food and novus stat losses.

Do you have a source for the B1 being less DPS? Puro posted that a T1+B1 rotation gives more DPS on his spreadsheet.

Also, higher spellspeed does mean you get interrupted less. A lower GCD means there will be times where you can finish a cast before moving or even use cast clipping sooner (moving just before a cast). This is something I do a number of times in ScoB.

Regarding the 6 fire rotation, the only recent testing i've seen is this:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/119692-Guide-Black-Mage-Because-heavy-deeps-that-s-why.?p=6203293&viewfull=1#post6203293

Do you have anything more recent? Obviously its not perfect due to using non BLM pieces. Losing 11 Int and 10 secondary stats, i'd be very interested to see your build to achieve that.

[dragonfire8974]

I'll do some looking today though it will take me a while due to irl stuff. I mained blm until October last year, then stopped playing till summer of this year, that's why I'm pretty sure it was a long time ago.

[StouterTaru]

Do you have a source for the B1 being less DPS? Puro posted that a T1+B1 rotation gives more DPS on his spreadsheet.

If I really need to argue this, the point was lost completely. The dps of B1 is about 60% of a normal rotation total dps. That's the same as wasting 40% of a GCD, almost a second.

Where exactly on his spreadsheet did he show the dps comparison? All I saw was rankings.

Also, higher spellspeed does mean you get interrupted less.

Math problem: You are always casting. With a 2 second cast time, what are the chances that you'll be in that first 80% of your spell cast when a mob uses a skill that causes you to move? What about with a 10 second cast time?

Regarding the 6 fire rotation, the only recent testing i've seen is this:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/119692-Guide-Black-Mage-Because-heavy-deeps-that-s-why.?p=6203293&viewfull=1#post6203293

Do you have anything more recent? Obviously its not perfect due to using non BLM pieces. Losing 11 Int and 10 secondary stats, i'd be very interested to see your build to achieve that.

The thing that jumps out there is the difference in F1 average. Same gear, RNG changed things dramatically. If the 6 fire rotation had the same average damage on F1s, it would have won out by about 4 dps. Plus he skipped some B1 casts due to not enough PIE.

11 PIE from Hat/Hands/Feet, each for a loss of 6 INT and a gain of ~20 secondary stats using ilvl90 over ilvl110.
8 PIE from Belt, each for a loss of 5 INT and a gain of ~20 secondary stats using ilvl90 over ilvl110.
23(24) PIE for 23(24) secondary stats on Novus(Nexus)
17 PIE HQ Pineapple Juice, loss of 15-30 secondary stats
8 PIE from SCH in party below 300 PIE, 9 PIE at 300+

Master race can get 302 with Nexus and a Belt (5 INT, ~25 secondary stat loss) and can also hit 315 with Novus and two of hat/hands/feet (12 INT, ~10 secondary stat loss)
302 PIE for rest of the races Novus, belt, and one of hat/hands/feet (11 INT, ~10 secondary stat loss)

[SeraviEdalborez]

The thing that jumps out there is the difference in F1 average. Same gear, RNG changed things dramatically. If the 6 fire rotation had the same average damage on F1s, it would have won out by about 4 dps. Plus he skipped some B1 casts due to not enough PIE.

I agree, the crit difference between the trials makes it not a great indicator (and I was too lazy that day to do more), but it just didn't look promising at the time because it was only a very slight difference. Eyeballing, it looked like a wash to have a Novus (at the time) with PIE and a couple i90 PIE meld pieces versus going full INT like a regular BLM.

Though like I said in that post; not exactly a BLM main so my eyeballs aren't worth as much.

[Sleigh]

If I really need to argue this, the point was lost completely. The dps of B1 is about 60% of a normal rotation total dps. That's the same as wasting 40% of a GCD, almost a second.

Where exactly on his spreadsheet did he show the dps comparison? All I saw was rankings.

I agree with this, from testing and putting it into practice, and it's why I favor T2. I'm unsure if Puro's calculations included the possibility of stopping your cast in the interest of the rotation for a very small amount of time or if his calculations assumed if you can't immediately F3 after your T1/T2 you HAVE to do a B1.

[Numenor1379]

I agree with this, from testing and putting it into practice, and it's why I favor T2. I'm unsure if Puro's calculations included the possibility of stopping your cast in the interest of the rotation for a very small amount of time or if his calculations assumed if you can't immediately F3 after your T1/T2 you HAVE to do a B1.

I favor T2 mainly because T1 seems to always runs out before I get back to it in my rotation whereas T2 tends to be hitting zero just as I start the next cast of it. Seems to be a waste of DPS on the boss IMHO to not keep the DoT up as much as possible, which is why I'm still not quite believing the numbers for the calculator.

[dragonfire8974]

I favor T2 mainly because T1 seems to always runs out before I get back to it in my rotation whereas T2 tends to be hitting zero just as I start the next cast of it. Seems to be a waste of DPS on the boss IMHO to not keep the DoT up as much as possible, which is why I'm still not quite believing the numbers for the calculator.

If I read it correctly, thunder 1 has no chance of clipping no matter rng. Also, it has a lesser cast time making it more likely to go off before needing to move if targeted, but that's my own interpretation of a benefit of that rotation. And, as it was said before, it allows flexibility in returning to the fire rotation, leaving the least downtime from casting no matter when the mana tick is, possibly returning straight to fire when thunder is cast if the tick comes immediately, or giving a spell to occupy the downtime if necessary to wait.

[StouterTaru]

If I read it correctly, thunder 1 has no chance of clipping no matter rng. Also, it has a lesser cast time making it more likely to go off before needing to move if targeted, but that's my own interpretation of a benefit of that rotation. And, as it was said before, it allows flexibility in returning to the fire rotation, leaving the least downtime from casting no matter when the mana tick is, possibly returning straight to fire when thunder is cast if the tick comes immediately, or giving a spell to occupy the downtime if necessary to wait.

You can clip with Thunder I, but you need Fey up to get under 2.25 GCD, and no FC/TC procs for a round (<10% chance), after having a quick tick of mp from the last Blizzard III.