Now that Nexus is out... still a good idea to put piety on Blm Novus or no?

[StouterTaru]

How on earth does it let you be more flexible with your rotation. If anything, T1+B1 is more flexible than T2 because if you get a quick mana tick, you go into Fire phase without B1, if you get a slow tick, you do a B1 (or a scathe if you need to move).

T2 is less DPS, less flexible with movement (due to the longer cast), and less flexible with mana ticks.

Casting Blizzard I drops your dps by as much as standing still not casting anything for almost a full second.

You still have the ability to cast B1 after T2 if you get a slow UI tick, it will just happen much less often.

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And while we're at it, higher spell speed doesn't make you get interrupted fewer times, it increases the number of spells you crank out, so you are interrupted a lower percentage of your cast time.

6 fire rotation only takes 369 PIE, that's only a loss of 11 INT and ~10 secondary stats in a party with SCH. Yes, that does include food and novus stat losses.

[Alistaire]

And while we're at it, higher spell speed doesn't make you get interrupted fewer times, it increases the number of spells you crank out, so you are interrupted a lower percentage of your cast time.

6 fire rotation only takes 369 PIE, that's only a loss of 11 INT and ~10 secondary stats in a party with SCH. Yes, that does include food and novus stat losses.

You're neglecting that aside from the higher # of spells each spell has a smaller window of being interrupted, since you won't be interrupted if you're at somehin like 80% cast (I forget the exact figure).

Edit: and as soon as you start including INT losses to accomplish more PIE you should probably just quit BLM.

[StouterTaru]

You're neglecting that aside from the higher # of spells each spell has a smaller window of being interrupted, since you won't be interrupted if you're at somehin like 80% cast (I forget the exact figure).

Edit: and as soon as you start including INT losses to accomplish more PIE you should probably just quit BLM.

Yes it is a smaller window per spell, but there's more of those windows. It equals out.

I'm not talking a straight INT>PIE swap on bonus attributes, and if you think 1 INT is worth more than any amount of PIE, you should just stop talking.

[Alistaire]

I'm not talking a straight INT>PIE swap on bonus attributes, and if you think 1 INT is worth more than any amount of PIE, you should just stop talking.

So we're agreed then. Except you haven't then explained where you're losing INT to get PIE. Two melded i90s?

But no, it is NOT worth the gil/time to min/max a Novus as there will always be weapons with the desired min/max stats otherwise available in game. Just make a good solid weapon.

True (as true as opinions can go) except for the DET weighting. A novus will potentially have 44 crit/31 det where any other i110 weapon with crit high det low would be 44 crit 22 det, or det high crit low would be 31 det 31 crit.

[StouterTaru]

So we're agreed then. Except you haven't then explained where you're losing INT to get PIE. Two melded i90s?

HQ Cashmere Hat Of Casting - 18 INT
High Allagan Mask Of Casting - 24 INT

Head/Hands/Feet are each a loss of 6 INT, max at 11 PIE
Belt/Accessories are each a loss of 5 INT, max at 8 PIE

The eps parsing was done last year comparing 5 fire rotation to 6 fire rotation and it ended up that 5 stronger fires even at ilvl 90 had higher dps. That is if I'm remembering the timeline correctly.

I don't remember ever seeing that, and even so the gear is a lot different now than it was then. It takes a whole lot less now to hit enough MP than it did in 2.0

[dragonfire8974]

I'll do some looking today though it will take me a while due to irl stuff. I mained blm until October last year, then stopped playing till summer of this year, that's why I'm pretty sure it was a long time ago.

[dragonfire8974]

Yes it is a smaller window per spell, but there's more of those windows. It equals out.

I'm not talking a straight INT>PIE swap on bonus attributes, and if you think 1 INT is worth more than any amount of PIE, you should just stop talking.

The eps parsing was done last year comparing 5 fire rotation to 6 fire rotation and it ended up that 5 stronger fires even at ilvl 90 had higher dps. That is if I'm remembering the timeline correctly.

[HaroldSaxon]

Get the burrs out of your rears, numbers this small only mean something if you use a parser and can easily be wiped out by RNG or human error. Sure, you can always say 1dps more is 1dps more. But you know, as I do, that there is no practical or real life difference between these numbers. No one will ever notice you doing 1dps more or less w/o running that parser, and in the end the monster will be dead at the same time anyways.

By your same argument it doesn't matter if someone puts points in skillspeed on BLM because its only a small dps loss

Casting Blizzard I drops your dps by as much as standing still not casting anything for almost a full second.

You still have the ability to cast B1 after T2 if you get a slow UI tick, it will just happen much less often.

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And while we're at it, higher spell speed doesn't make you get interrupted fewer times, it increases the number of spells you crank out, so you are interrupted a lower percentage of your cast time.

6 fire rotation only takes 369 PIE, that's only a loss of 11 INT and ~10 secondary stats in a party with SCH. Yes, that does include food and novus stat losses.

Do you have a source for the B1 being less DPS? Puro posted that a T1+B1 rotation gives more DPS on his spreadsheet.

Also, higher spellspeed does mean you get interrupted less. A lower GCD means there will be times where you can finish a cast before moving or even use cast clipping sooner (moving just before a cast). This is something I do a number of times in ScoB.

Regarding the 6 fire rotation, the only recent testing i've seen is this:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/119692-Guide-Black-Mage-Because-heavy-deeps-that-s-why.?p=6203293&viewfull=1#post6203293

Do you have anything more recent? Obviously its not perfect due to using non BLM pieces. Losing 11 Int and 10 secondary stats, i'd be very interested to see your build to achieve that.

[StouterTaru]

Do you have a source for the B1 being less DPS? Puro posted that a T1+B1 rotation gives more DPS on his spreadsheet.

If I really need to argue this, the point was lost completely. The dps of B1 is about 60% of a normal rotation total dps. That's the same as wasting 40% of a GCD, almost a second.

Where exactly on his spreadsheet did he show the dps comparison? All I saw was rankings.

Also, higher spellspeed does mean you get interrupted less.

Math problem: You are always casting. With a 2 second cast time, what are the chances that you'll be in that first 80% of your spell cast when a mob uses a skill that causes you to move? What about with a 10 second cast time?

Regarding the 6 fire rotation, the only recent testing i've seen is this:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/119692-Guide-Black-Mage-Because-heavy-deeps-that-s-why.?p=6203293&viewfull=1#post6203293

Do you have anything more recent? Obviously its not perfect due to using non BLM pieces. Losing 11 Int and 10 secondary stats, i'd be very interested to see your build to achieve that.

The thing that jumps out there is the difference in F1 average. Same gear, RNG changed things dramatically. If the 6 fire rotation had the same average damage on F1s, it would have won out by about 4 dps. Plus he skipped some B1 casts due to not enough PIE.

11 PIE from Hat/Hands/Feet, each for a loss of 6 INT and a gain of ~20 secondary stats using ilvl90 over ilvl110.
8 PIE from Belt, each for a loss of 5 INT and a gain of ~20 secondary stats using ilvl90 over ilvl110.
23(24) PIE for 23(24) secondary stats on Novus(Nexus)
17 PIE HQ Pineapple Juice, loss of 15-30 secondary stats
8 PIE from SCH in party below 300 PIE, 9 PIE at 300+

Master race can get 302 with Nexus and a Belt (5 INT, ~25 secondary stat loss) and can also hit 315 with Novus and two of hat/hands/feet (12 INT, ~10 secondary stat loss)
302 PIE for rest of the races Novus, belt, and one of hat/hands/feet (11 INT, ~10 secondary stat loss)

[SeraviEdalborez]

The thing that jumps out there is the difference in F1 average. Same gear, RNG changed things dramatically. If the 6 fire rotation had the same average damage on F1s, it would have won out by about 4 dps. Plus he skipped some B1 casts due to not enough PIE.

I agree, the crit difference between the trials makes it not a great indicator (and I was too lazy that day to do more), but it just didn't look promising at the time because it was only a very slight difference. Eyeballing, it looked like a wash to have a Novus (at the time) with PIE and a couple i90 PIE meld pieces versus going full INT like a regular BLM.

Though like I said in that post; not exactly a BLM main so my eyeballs aren't worth as much.