It's about time to add Coil story mode, isn't it ?

[Vekial]

just please don't bother to post if it's purely to troll.

Not trolling. You asked in the original post, and I quote "[For] a version of the coil which would only serves the purpose of giving the story to players." You didn't ask to experience the story, so I "gave" you the cut scenes to feed you the story like you wanted. I don't see how I'm wrong. You received exactly what you asked for.

In regards to the reference Adamant made about the player on LoL, his point was that with enough effort anyone can achieve their goal. But I guess that went right past you and you saw it as a game comparison and needing to be disabled to get anywhere...I won't ask how you came to that conclusion...but I'll let you be.

[Kuwagami]

MMO's literally fail because of the lack of a rewarding end game for those "ultra-hardcore raiders." It's the number 1 reason cited when MMO's fail. So no, it's not negligible.

MMO usually fail when they catter to hard to once side of the player base totally ignoring the other or when they never decide what to do. And I have high doubts a MMO would fail because of "no rewarding end game" alone. there are MMOs without any relevant endgame and still going.

On the other end, FFxiv 1.xx didn't fail because of whatever endgame might have been back then but because the game plainly failed to see what the players wanted, or so they said themselves.

Not trolling. You asked in the original post, and I quote "[For] a version of the coil which would only serves the purpose of giving the story to players." You didn't ask to experience the story, so I "gave" you the cut scenes to feed you the story like you wanted. I don't see how I'm wrong. You received exactly what you asked for..

playing semantics doesn't reduce the amount of trolling.

In regards to the reference Adamant made about the player on LoL, his point was that with enough effort anyone can achieve their goal. But I guess that went right past you and you saw it as a game comparison and needing to be disabled to get anywhere...I won't ask how you came to that conclusion...but I'll let you be.

And his point is still invalid because what that man did, many others would not have been able to come any close. You draw your own conclusions on my post and said they were mine. I merely said that because one random guy is good at one random game despite being disable/blind/whatever does not mean anyone is able to do something else, much less on a totally different field.

I'll say it again :
This guy is good at LoL even though he's disabled. OK, fair enough. He's even better than I am on that game. Yet this is totally irrelevant when it comes to other people's ability to do anything, especially is what you expect them to do is unrelated to the example you give.

Wanna hear an example ? I hard carried a guy through T5 back then. He died on every single mechanic of the fight the whole 20 hours we went in training him to help him, and in the end he was so desperate that we just stopped intentionally wiping in last phase and got it done. He would just never have done it. Should he feel ashamed because a disabled guy is good at LoL ? That's what the argument says

[Gardes]

That said, having these lockouts certainly lengthens the lifespan of these events... I totally get that. But at what cost? Is it better to wall people out, causing people to get frustrated and leave? Or is it better to incentivize more people to participate, which may take some of the exclusiveness from endgame, which may cause some super hardcore raiders to leave?

Personally, I think a no-loot story mode would be fine. People could still get clears for content, but they wouldn't have the rare, epic loot that hardcore raiders have. There would still be that pinnacle tier for those super hardcore players to stand on.

If you have a cake walk 'story mode', people would clear them in a day and then have nothing to do again because they still can't clear the normal mode. Coil turns where all the attacks are non-lethal would not teach players anything unless SE goes out of their way to make an actual practice mode. That means something like visual and audio cues so that players can tell that those twisters they're eating are actually deadly in normal mode and also score tracking e.g.: finish the fight and you get to see how many mistakes you made, how many times you could have died had this been a normal mode, etc.

If you have a normal 'story mode', people with connections but no statics can get clears and then have nothing to do raid wise after their first clear. The only thing left to do will still be doing the weekly lockout where they can actually get loot but this time they'll have no 'friends' to carry/back them up and they're back to square one: sifting through the pugs each week or sifting through the pugs to make a static themselves. In the end, if the only aim is getting a one time win for a clear, this is just a matter of waiting 6 months or however long till your 'friends in another static' learns the fight enough so they can help you through once.

In the end, it's either SE having to spend time on a not half-baked practice mode or SE risking the stability of the playerbase by making turn spam available immediately after release instead of 6 months after.

[Souljacker]

Many of you have never played other games, so allow me to give you some information on how it works in other places.

No loot, just story = terrible idea and wholly unique to FF players. Tiered raiding still needs *some* level of loot. No, it shouldn't be the best gear you can obtain from beating the most challenging of content, but it *should* be a stepping stone into harder content. The way that it works in WoW is the LFR level of difficulty still has drops, but they are no where near the level of a heroic version of the raid. However, you run LFR to gear for flex\normal, and if all you wanted is the story, it ends there. Then you run normal to gear for heroic. Those that complete heroic are clearly marked, because they get the highest ilvl gear and often the gear is much better looking.

Adding a story mode coil with no drops at all wouldn't work. No one would run it, despite those folks who say they want just the "Story". If it was just that, then they would go into Youtube like some have suggested. Tiered raiding is a great idea, but it needs to be implemented in a way that makes sense and that has been proven to work elsewhere. I know that many people hate WoW (usually irrationally), but they have implemented some incredibly great things that gives all their players a level of difficulty\reward that is appropriate to their individual time commitment and skill level. SE can do that here as well and in some cases already has with tiered Avatar fights. They just need to extend it into the raiding aspect.

[Tiggy]

MMO usually fail when they catter to hard to once side of the player base totally ignoring the other or when they never decide what to do. And I have high doubts a MMO would fail because of "no rewarding end game" alone. there are MMOs without any relevant endgame and still going.

On the other end, FFxiv 1.xx didn't fail because of whatever endgame might have been back then but because the game plainly failed to see what the players wanted, or so they said themselves.

I would say
A) You need to do some more research on why MMO's fail to gain traction and either die or revert to a f2p model because end game is a very large factor.
B) FFXIV is arguably the worst big budget MMO to launch in a decade so yes it had other problems than just end game. That doesn't necessarily mean many others doesn't fail due to poor end games.

I think you underestimate the effect the end game crowd has on an MMO in a big way.

[Felis]

I believe that in i160 gear, people will still fail Twintania unless they make it so that twisters don't instantly kill, and the flame wall doesn't instantly kill. As long as they keep that, people will still be blocked by it. Gear does not cure bad (or lag).

i160 would be next expansion pack and I doubt that they don't nerf Twintania with 3.0

[IveraIvalice]

You didn't read anything I typed clearly, they ARE adding it, as they DO care. Please consider reading what people type before responding so swiftly.

But they're never going to add it straight away as that would means developing four variations of the fight;

[1] Original Concept/Battle Design - (Too Difficult for main-stream raiding)
[2] Watered Down "Normal Raid" through various adjustments
[3] Savage Mode based on Original Concept
[4] Story Mode, simple or no fights altogether

That is a lot of time and work that could be better spent elsewhere, which is why we're only seeing savage modes of the fight now.


Considering they're already on a 3-month development cycle it doesn't leave a lot of breathing room, you'll simply have to be patient, the actual raid content will always come first before the nerfs.[/url]

I read everything, there's nothing in my post to make you assume I didn't. I gave my opinion not based on facts or numbers but by simple personal opinion on what I think a paying customer is entitled to and nothing more.
Just to clarify, I read every single page before posting a single comment, I doubt that was swift by any means because I think by then it was up about 30 pages.
I'm just not about to repeat what many have said before me so it can get lost in a sea of posts and start arguments with people who have been arguing for days already.

My reasoning is much more simple. It will make them happy, the story is important, it's not hurting anyone and they pay just as much for the game.

Also you number 1 and 3 are the same thing

[Thayos]

If you have a cake walk 'story mode'

Again, I'm not asking for a "cake walk" story mode.

I just want a repeatable version of the SAME THING that doesn't drop any loot. No nerfing. None. Just give people a chance to beat the content without needing a static.

NO NERFS!

And if you go back a page or two, you'll see you're late to this discussion. Read my posts, then Twiggy's, and you'll see this has already been talked out. Twiggy brought up excellent points that are actually relevant counterpoints to what I want.

[Vandesaan]

If your ISP is not Verizon, I don't care. That is a different issue. Lag makes coil unplayable, and that is a fact. How can you possibly explain dodging divebombs or picking up adds when there is at least 10 second delays in everything you do and see on your screen?

To the rest of your argument, you don't seem to understand that people will not have access to later coils and gear by clearing an easy mode, as explained in the OP. If anything, this would make the playerbase better, as they'd have an avenue for practice. This is purely for storyline purposes.

I'm not on Verizon, I'm in Europe with 170 ms ping and 30% packet loss. Stuff stops moving on my screen for gigantic periods of time randomly unless I use a VPN service to get around the issue in my ISPs network. Prior to figuring out what the issue was I have killed Twintania while stuff warped around on my screen and my group would reset the fight should I be lagging at a bad point. Lag is no excuse.

Now, for "viewing the story" only. Endgame content in this game will not get easier. New, harder challenges will always have to be developed and released onto the players. That only stays true however if over half the player base doesn't lose their incentive to learn to play the game properly. I fear for the upcoming content and how it will have to be "easy enough" for those who can't even kill Twintania. Dungeons will continue to be the most infernally boring thing ever since they can't make them challenging for this exact reason. That is the only reason I don't want it to be handed out to those incapable of getting good.

[Nici]

Adding a story mode coil with no drops at all wouldn't work. No one would run it, despite those folks who say they want just the "Story". If it was just that, then they would go into Youtube like some have suggested. Tiered raiding is a great idea, but it needs to be implemented in a way that makes sense and that has been proven to work elsewhere. I know that many people hate WoW (usually irrationally), but they have implemented some incredibly great things that gives all their players a level of difficulty\reward that is appropriate to their individual time commitment and skill level. SE can do that here as well and in some cases already has with tiered Avatar fights. They just need to extend it into the raiding aspect.

You have a point...there is already a "story mode" fights in this game as is...specifically in Non Hard Mode Primal Fights, no loot whatsoever...they are there just to advance the main story line, how many run normal primal fights these days over and over and over?...not counting helping friends or winding up doing it cause of roulette?, ive read through most of this thread and both sides have made some valid points, i would say SE and Yoshi's team should come up with a Coil Lite(sounds like a new alcoholic beer/beverage) version....which is already implemented in turns 1-5 with the echo, Do we really want something easier than that?...if so maybe Yoshi's team should tweak the fights a bit more for those that are still having trouble. *shrugs*