An open discsusion on the consequences of death

[Endemerrin]

You are in no position to tell me what will or will not evoke a certain response out of me.

No, I'm not. Biology is.

You want sweeping changes that impact other players because of your own personal preference.

Sure, it's a personal preference, but it's one held by numerous other players. I'm not alone in my point of view, and neither are you in your view.

I'll also answer this line with another. Later on, you state this:

Dying in itself is punishment. If you've died, you've failed. On top of that you should also be punished? How is failure not punishment?

Now, take a look at this from an objective perspective. Sure, this is essentially currently in-game, there-for not a change. However, to me, it's an opposing view. Much like my ideas are to you.

In a sense, you're stance (doesn't)want changes that impact other players because of your personal preference. So don't think you can play that card and get off scott-free. Doesn't work that way.

I've stated my opinion, though, so I have nothing else to say.

[ryuuseikan]

18 pages still not a proposal that is siginificantly better than the current one that is worth considering of re-implementing. I'd say let's see how the battle system change turns out to be and then look at DP again.

[Akuun]

The problem I see with a death penalty is that the only classes that would suffer from it regularly is war and magic
As long as the benefits befallen the war and magic outweigh the overall penalty I think I would be fine with it
Other wise I would have to insist on penalties for failures on the land and hand classes as that would only be balanced

I wouldn't mind if the effects of sickness were greater, as long as the time were not increased beyond 5 mins
and the HP penalty wasn't to the degree that you simply could not rejoin your party if aggressive monsters were between you and them while doing something like NMs

Also the Penalty when raised should be abolished, atm it's basically worthless since you can run back and still be waiting on sickness. The cast time is also silly.

[Rowyne]

Penalties for death in this game are fine as they are. Gear dmg plus time wasted.

^ Agree with this.

[Seikninkuru]

No, I'm not. Biology is.


Sure, it's a personal preference, but it's one held by numerous other players. I'm not alone in my point of view, and neither are you in your view.

I'll also answer this line with another. Later on, you state this:


Now, take a look at this from an objective perspective. Sure, this is essentially currently in-game, there-for not a change. However, to me, it's an opposing view. Much like my ideas are to you.

In a sense, you're stance (doesn't)want changes that impact other players because of your personal preference. So don't think you can play that card and get off scott-free. Doesn't work that way.

I've stated my opinion, though, so I have nothing else to say.

You had nothing to really say from the beginning, glad you finally realized that.

[Rowyne]

They already penalize you for playing to much (surplus) so why should they penalize you for dying too?

Exactly. And then people will be crying even more when they see greater effects of surplus because they're grinding to get their lost XP back. It'll create a vicious cycle.

There seems to be a trend. The only people that seem to want exp loss are the FFXI vets. They're used to a world where it's either endgame for the hardest of the hardcore who are fine with spending hours getting their lost exp back, or mindlessly grinding single mobs that don't penalize you much, by comparison. FFXI is a very controlled environment. But most MMOs these days, are not.

In WoW, for example, dying is embarrassing. It means you're not doing your job. It means you're not topping the DPS meters. It means you can no longer heal your party. It means you didn't know enough to not stand in the fire. 'You're a noob'. Believe me, that's incentive enough.

Yoshi-P has said that more complex content is coming, such as instanced dungeons and raids. I'm sure after the battle system is revamped and the new content is implemented, the world is going to change and we can re-evaluate the death penalty. But right now, it's putting the cart before the horse.

Those who are in favor of losing exp feel a sense of dissatisfaction and don't want to change how it was done in FFXI.

Most who don't want to lose exp have already stated it would be a gamebreaker and will quit.

I think the choice is clear.

[Rentahamster]

18 pages still not a proposal that is siginificantly better than the current one that is worth considering of re-implementing. I'd say let's see how the battle system change turns out to be and then look at DP again.

You didn't like mine? I thought it was pretty good.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ll=1#post21748

I do not think that having XP loss is a good way to make death more threatening. There are too many negatives that outweigh the positives, and it discourages more than it encourages.

I agree that the current system is a little too lenient and most players tend to throw caution to the wind and just go for it since the penalty of death isn't that severe.

There are better ways to make a player not want to die. How about this:

For every 24 hours a player goes without dying, they get one "life point". Upon accumulating 10 life points (maximum of 15), the player gets to enjoy certain bonuses that he can choose (up to 2): +5% attack/mag attack, +5% defense/mag defense, +5% accuracy/mag acc, -5% MP cost, +5% TP gain, -10% gil from NPC shops, +2% SP bonus.

Characters with 15 life points also get some sort of physical appearance boost, like a healthy glow, or something. I dunno, something that looks cool and attractive, but not too gaudy.

The lowest amount of life points you can ever have is -5. If you ever have a life point total between -5 and -1, your appearance takes on a slightly more sickly look. Nothing too severe, as that would discourage a lot of ppl, but noticeable enough so that I can look at that player and know, "that dude dies too much".

Upon dying -

A player loses 3 anima.

All gear except the weapon takes a 15% durability hit.

You lose 10 life points.

Weakness status for 3 minutes.


If a player is raised -

You only lose 5 life points.

Weakness status for 3 minutes.


If a player is raised with the skill "Raise II" -

You only lose 5 life points.

[Endemerrin]

You had nothing to really say from the beginning, glad you finally realized that.

This made me laugh. Thanks for making my day.

This is a discussion thread. I stated my views and opinions. All you really did was claim I had issues as a person and was wrong. You're just making yourself look like a tool.

Anyways, ignoring this troll and getting back on subject.

It's understandable that people don't want harsher death penalties. A lot of people don't want FFXI-2, and prefer the more casual atmosphere of FFXIV. I personally don't really want an FFXI-2 either, but I want to feel like I have a reason to avoid death. To me, simply dieing isn't a strong enough message. It leaves me with no motivation to avoid death. I want a mechanic that pushes me to not die.

To me, it would increase the excitement and accomplishment from battle. I personally feel that with a harsh death penalty comes greater reward. You feel that much more accomplished by defeating a powerful enemy, or completing a difficult quest. It just adds to the experience for me.

Perhaps an EXP penalty might not be the correct route, but I feel we need something stronger than durability loss and a bit of running.

I like some of the ideas above, even. Anima would be a nice idea once Chocobos and Airships are implemented.

[Rentahamster]

Or how about this: Hardcore Mode

The game Diablo II gives you a choice of playing in hardcore mode where the penalty of death is permanent. This gives players who want that kind of experience the option to have it, and the players who don't want it can just play normal mode.

This same concept can be fit to FF14.

Let there be some NPC somewhere that gives you a quest ( a difficult quest), and after you complete the quest you have the ability to go back to the NPC at anytime and toggle your play mode to either "normal" or "hardcore".

Normal mode is just like how we play now.

If you choose to toggle hardcore mode, you will experience SP loss upon death. However, you will get a special visual cue on your character's appearance, or some kind of cool marker that let's everyone else know that you're a badass.

In hardcore mode, you get +5% atk or def or +5% SP gain or gil from leves or whatever, I dunno, some kinda of incentive to balance the risk/reward.

Sounds good?

[Balbanes]

There has to be a reason not to die. Right now there is none.

Simple and true. Unfortunately, no system exists that will make everyone happy. Someone's always going to complain no matter what SE does in this situation.

I would suggest, instead of SP/EXP loss, an SP/EXP debt.
When you die, you get a 1% debt based off the total amount of SP/EXP required to level up. This debt should gradually fade with RL time. Say, 48 hours or something.

For example:
It takes 10,000 SP to rank up to the next rank. You die while having 1,000 SP. You'll still have 1,000 SP, but you'll need to "work off" an extra 100 SP before you can move beyond your currently earned 1,000. Each time you die, this 1% debt stacks on itself. Being raised by a player could lessen the 1% penalty.

1% is not harsh at all, and it's not no penalty. Best of both worlds IMO.