An open discsusion on the consequences of death

[Akumu]

and what did the dev team do after they did that strategy? Force boss fights like Pandemonium into a two hour battle, and the same player certainly didn't have the chance to redo the battle again, it would take another player to get his chance at the Warden. You want best weapons and items +20 and not care about lore, immersion, and strategy? Go play Dynasty Warriors, they have an online game coming out soon. This isn't about fear, its about difficulty, and there are many ways to increase difficulty. If a "Hardcore Gamer" doesn't care about that...well, that's not very "hardcore" then, is it?

Lol you guys that agree with this are correct because this does makes things rather DIFFICULT.
It makes it DIFFICULT for the average player to say "I'm gonna try and be a Tank/Healer." Its DIFFICULT to enjoy the game because this jerk disbanded just to watch us die over a grudge. It becomes extremely DIFFICULT once we have a load of DDs because new players are scared to replace the now endgame heals/tanks.

[Kallera]

Lol you guys that agree with this are correct because this does makes things rather DIFFICULT.
It makes it DIFFICULT for the average player to say "I'm gonna try and be a Tank/Healer." Its DIFFICULT to enjoy the game because this jerk disbanded just to watch us die over a grudge. It becomes extremely DIFFICULT once we have a load of DDs because new players are scared to replace the now endgame heals/tanks.

Would you prefer a melting pot of mediocrity, playing whatever they felt like and winning no matter the class they chose? Surely that will appease everyone playing, everyone plays to win after all, they should also allow you to keep the items you failed to synth, and never lose a mining point. Because god forbid the hardcore gamer has ANYTHING at stake in his quest to save the world.

Cause you know, saving the world should never have even the slightest consequence for failure. That would just be too much.

[Akumu]

Would you prefer a melting pot of mediocrity, playing whatever they felt like and winning no matter the class they chose? Surely that will appease everyone playing, everyone plays to win after all, they should also allow you to keep the items you failed to synth, and never lose a mining point. Because god forbid the hardcore gamer has ANYTHING at stake in his quest to save the world.

Cause you know, saving the world should never have even the slightest consequence for failure. That would just be too much.

/sigh... So how is xp loss at stake make sense? If I threw a brick at you and you were knocked out did you lose or gain? I would hope gain since the next time it happens I would hope you would duck....Xp loss can't possibly be the ONLY way to make content challenging or difficult...

[God]

Would you prefer a melting pot of mediocrity, playing whatever they felt like and winning no matter the class they chose? Surely that will appease everyone playing, everyone plays to win after all, they should also allow you to keep the items you failed to synth, and never lose a mining point. Because god forbid the hardcore gamer has ANYTHING at stake in his quest to save the world.

Strawman. None of that is in the game nor is anyone asking for it.

Penalties for death in this game are fine as they are. Gear dmg plus time wasted.

[Kallera]

Well I am certainly in category B from the first post of this thread, As it stands you can already throw zombies at targets in behest, and what with the new changes to gear damage, I'd like to see that changed.

[Seif]

Death penalties are a necessity and help to keep a feeling of urgency and suspense within the context of the world itself.

Everybody including myself plays badly because dying is just another part of completing a leve.
Even if they implement strategy to gameplay they're not going to get noticed as the meaninglessness of death doesn't make anyone care about what they're doing.

[Akumu]

Death penalties are a necessity and help to keep a feeling of urgency and suspense within the context of the world itself.

Everybody including myself plays badly because dying is just another part of completing a leve.
Even if they implement strategy to gameplay they're not going to get noticed as the meaninglessness of death doesn't make anyone care about what they're doing.

This will be my last post on this topic but just wanted to respond to this. I have never and will never play BADLY because of any kind of death penalty installed. Whether FFXI, LOTRO, WARHAMMER, WoW or any of the others I played. Only time in ANY game I died on purpose was blood-warping(XI) or when I went on a personal suicide mission linking the entire zone(also XI). I can even go further and add If you die you are kicked out of the dungeon(This would be better if the dungeon had a hardcore mode).

edit: Its sad someone has to kick you in the nuts to get serious. For me just add a bunch of dungeons with bosses that you have to position yourself smartly or he will slaughter you. This is an example that will make things more interesting.

[Endemerrin]

To me, it seems like people just aren't getting the point. I don't believe gear damage is an acceptable form of a penalty. I can just run along, die a handful of times, and brush it off with "Meh, I'll just throw this stuff up on my retainer in the Mender's Ward when I log, and 90% of the time it will be ready for me when I come back!" The days it isn't, I just find some one and get it repaired real quick.

It's no real detriment to me, and I'm a somewhat casual player.

People are afraid of losing EXP upon death because it would be a real time-sink. You would constantly fear losing it, therefor you would fear death. That's the whole POINT.

This whole argument that FFXIV's combat system is too sketchy to have that sort of system in place since people die left and right holds some water, I'll give it that. It's true the way things are right now, an EXP loss on death might be a bit harsh. HOWEVER, major changes are coming to the battle system. Both in the way classes are played, and combat itself is regulated. When those changes come, barring the possibility of remaining flaws, I believe an EXP penalty should be implemented to give a sense of much needed urgency and desperation to battles. On another note, being a former avid FFXI player, I do not believe de-leveling should be included in this.

There's nothing like activating that fight or flight response during the heat of an intense battle. You just can't replicate that sort of response when there isn't something that's actually meaningful to you on the line.

[Seikninkuru]

To me, it seems like people just aren't getting the point. I don't believe gear damage is an acceptable form of a penalty. I can just run along, die a handful of times, and brush it off with "Meh, I'll just throw this stuff up on my retainer in the Mender's Ward when I log, and 90% of the time it will be ready for me when I come back!" The days it isn't, I just find some one and get it repaired real quick.

It's no real detriment to me, and I'm a somewhat casual player.

People are afraid of losing EXP upon death because it would be a real time-sink. You would constantly fear losing it, therefor you would fear death. That's the whole POINT.

This whole argument that FFXIV's combat system is too sketchy to have that sort of system in place since people die left and right holds some water, I'll give it that. It's true the way things are right now, an EXP loss on death might be a bit harsh. HOWEVER, major changes are coming to the battle system. Both in the way classes are played, and combat itself is regulated. When those changes come, barring the possibility of remaining flaws, I believe an EXP penalty should be implemented to give a sense of much needed urgency and desperation to battles. On another note, being a former avid FFXI player, I do not believe de-leveling should be included in this.

There's nothing like activating that fight or flight response during the heat of an intense battle. You just can't replicate that sort of response when there isn't something that's actually meaningful to you on the line.

You are in no position to tell me what will or will not evoke a certain response out of me.

You want sweeping changes that impact other players because of your own personal preference. Why don't you delete a piece of gear when you die? That's a time sink for you, you have to hunt down a new piece of gear(and even worse if it's a rare), and I am not affected by it.

Dying in itself is punishment. If you've died, you've failed. On top of that you should also be punished? How is failure not punishment?

I've played games with full loot and monsters that can loot your corpse, EXP penalty, EXP debt, Gold repairs, Rez sickness, you name it. The difference in all of that had nothing to do with the death penalty(the exception being the PvP ones).

If the only thing that forces you to give something your all and avoid death is a swift kick in the nuts then I have to say you have issues as a person.

To those claiming difficulty is a problem, simple. No in-combat rezzing. You die, you're out of the fight, see how willing people are to die then.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

I love the current system. I enjoyed FFXI and other games that had death penalties but I just don't want that feeling when playing FFXIV. (Big fan of Demon Souls, some of you will understand that game had a really harsh death penalty)
You got to remember this game is totally different from FFXI and you die a lot more in this game than you did in FFXI and as Viion said a few posts up SP loss would be lost on the current system.

My idea is that when they add instances and other end game content(not exclusive to endgame) they could then make death penalties more harsh. Really depends on how the instances are set up and other variables. But to change that aspect of the game now I think would alienate some people who are against it, I am a semi hardcore player I do NMs with my LS but I have been taking breaks lately because lack of content so atm I play more casually. I really wouldn't want to suffer from harsh death penalties after playing the game that has minor penalties.

They already penalize you for playing to much (surplus) so why should they penalize you for dying too?