Challenge vs. reward: turn 5

[Legacy_Wolfwood]

sooooo why cant you put up a df? or get a ls/fc to help? some players do help or just run it for farm/fun. also yeah wanting to do 2nd coil with df will be worse. EVERY turn in 2nd has one shot mechanics and a lot going on. cant down t5, t6+ will be harder.

when 3rd coil released, they should just uncap echo on t5....

100% echo, im sure you can eat EVERYTHING (cept maybe twister or getting pushed into a wall from divebombs) and HOPEFULLY kill twin fast enough to skip or push phases lol

then the players who didnt beat t5 normally with 20% can be stuck in 2nd coil for months waiting for echo to build and wish for nerfs

[Samsta]

sooooo why cant you put up a df? or get a ls/fc to help?

I do not think you read my posts, you will find answers to these in those.

[Legacy_Wolfwood]

I do not think you read my posts, you will find answers to these in those.

Hello everyone, I have been playing the game for 6 weeks now after I quit for 5 months or so, and I have recently begun to do the turn 5 of the first coil.

This fight is hard I see, much harder than any primal battle that is for sure. And I have no problems with that itself , since it was designed to be the hardest battle in the game for 2.0.

What I have a problem with is that it rewards us with ilvl90 gear and ilvl95 weapons, which in a current game are pretty crap and much easier to obtain other ways. In 2.0 it made sense, since the highest ilvl was 90, but it doesn't make sense for the current game.

I have a feeling that the echo buff doesn't really matter in this fight, and if devs want the battle to be on par with the rewards something else must be done.

Personally I would love to try second coil, but I see this as a huge blockade that doesn't really reward us any way, especially when only the people that have not completed it do it, making it almost impossible to get a group going, and I can only que through df and hope for the best.

the only thing i see is "I can only que through the df". so like i said, WHY cant you put up a df? or get a ls/fc to help? that is your fault if your choosing to limit your options to waiting for the df to pair you up with members that will carry you. welcome to an MMORPG. its nice to join groups that can work together to accomplish a goal. if the only people do it are those who havent completed it, then there should be enough players to form a group making it not impossible. also if you join an fc with enough endgame members, and they are nice, they can help you pass t5. don't usually expect carries. use df to learn the fight while watching vids and then when they help youre not a hinderance.

I didn't play the Coil 1 before the echo buff, but didn't t1-4 have one-shot mechanic as well?
I think T5 is more mechanically challenging than t6-8, but the echo buff definitely helps with some of them (fireball, hatch, DS, liquid, snake adds).
The only reasons T6-8 are harder is because there is no echo buff.

1st coil pre echo:

without the basic enrage timers:

t1? 1 shot is if you get the snake to max stacks i guess but as long as you fed slimes, its fine
t2? allagan rot, but eventually came the 1 tank 3 heal enrage method that got fined tune to todays lovely 20%
t3....
t4? there is only waves of adds. even when full fed dreads, it was still being cleared.

so nope no real 1 shot till t5 twisters and if you get killed by the knightcrap that wasnt stunned

2nd coil t6-8 is as follows:

without with the enrage timers:

t6 has blighted, if you cant kill the bees fast enough, if you get 10 slime stacks, and if you so much as breathe on the jelly, as well as if raff eats too many members.
t7 has voice and shriek, renauds, glow platforms, petrifaction, as well as if mel gets too many stones
t8 has towers going up at the same time giving boss too many buffs, towers going off at same time, dread not dying fast enough, too many or too few players in ballistic missiles, player with allagan field taking too much damage

with eventual echo, those 1 shot mechanics are still there just like t5 twister and knights. so i dont think t5 is more mechanically challenging than t6-8. this is also supported by the fights themselves:

t5
p1: adds
p2: fireball and conflag
p3: divebombs, snakes, divebombs, snakes, aoe
p4: twister and deathknight (THE ONLY REAL 1 SHOT PHASE*)
p5: hatch and liquid hells

*the reason i say the only real 1 shot phase is that with 20% echo you have increased hp, hps, and dps. as long as you split fireball or feed it to conflag, you should have no issues. dps SHOULD be able to kill conflag with 20% echo. if not then t5 isnt for you.

t5 you deal with EACH phase individually

if they cant down it with 20% echo. what makes you think they can do 2nd coil with no echo?

t6-8 you pretty much deal with every single mechanic increasingly being added throughout the fight with 1 exception. which is that t6 last phase completely changes from the rest of the fight with the only thing remaining is vines.


anyways: i foresee a 1st coil duty roulette and more echo. maybe a nerf to twisters or some kinda t5 mechanic. so wait till then if you cant find the help needed. but dont expect a reward buff for outdated content.

[Marukoban]

sooooo why cant you put up a df? or get a ls/fc to help? some players do help or just run it for farm/fun. also yeah wanting to do 2nd coil with df will be worse. EVERY turn in 2nd has one shot mechanics and a lot going on. cant down t5, t6+ will be harder.

I didn't play the Coil 1 before the echo buff, but didn't t1-4 have one-shot mechanic as well?
I think T5 is more mechanically challenging than t6-8, but the echo buff definitely helps with some of them (fireball, hatch, DS, liquid, snake adds).
The only reasons T6-8 are harder is because there is no echo buff.

In NA server, are people in DF usually newbie?
I am asking because I noticed DF in my server, PUGs are usually really good.
Even PUG in PF are very competent. Got someone in my FC pug his way in PF to T9.

[KarstenS]

The only reasons T6-8 are harder is because there is no echo buff.

Uhm. No. 6-8 is harder because you have to watch for more deadly mechanics at the same time.

[Limonia]

I know what you mean, Samsta.
I also haven't cleared T5 yet because of similar reasons.

The problem is: you can watch 10000 videos and read 10000 guides, 1) it's not the same as doing it yourself and 2) it doesn't make others watch those videos and read those guides.
In Duty Finder you often don't even get past phase 2 because no one knows what to do OR everyone has a different strategy about how to position yourself and communication doesn't seem to help.

In Party Finder there's another problem: if you manage to get a group together and it actually says TRAINING in the PF comment, people still insult you if you do something wrong and leave immediately after one or two wipes.
I mean, I'm sorry, watching videos doesn't make me do it perfectly the first time, congratulations if you are perfect, I am not.
The last time I tried it a DPS died to second divebombs and left the party immediately. Oo
Or tanks running in after one wipe while no one is ready yet.
PF isn't much better than DF.
We only had one other person that really wanted to practice. The others didn't even talk or answer to questions if they know the strategy ... well ... 3 motivated players still aren't enough for T5, even with ilvl 100 +.

[NoahG]

We only had one other person that really wanted to practice. The others didn't even talk or answer to questions if they know the strategy ... well ... 3 motivated players still aren't enough for T5, even with ilvl 100 +.

The exact same thing happens in SCOB, assuming that you clear T5 you will face the same problems in T6+, what you gotta do is try form a ls you start with those 3 people interested when the party dissolves you put up another PF and you'll probably find a 4th person interested in practicing who you invite to your ls and so on and so forth, after some time you'll end up with a solid group and possibly a static for T5+. You have to remember it took like 3 months for ppl to start beating T5 back in the day, even though it's much easier now than how it was back then it still is a challenging fight and requires a high level of commitment, keep at it and you'll do it eventually we have all been there before.

Good luck!