Challenge vs. reward: turn 5

[Limonia]

I know what you mean, Samsta.
I also haven't cleared T5 yet because of similar reasons.

The problem is: you can watch 10000 videos and read 10000 guides, 1) it's not the same as doing it yourself and 2) it doesn't make others watch those videos and read those guides.
In Duty Finder you often don't even get past phase 2 because no one knows what to do OR everyone has a different strategy about how to position yourself and communication doesn't seem to help.

In Party Finder there's another problem: if you manage to get a group together and it actually says TRAINING in the PF comment, people still insult you if you do something wrong and leave immediately after one or two wipes.
I mean, I'm sorry, watching videos doesn't make me do it perfectly the first time, congratulations if you are perfect, I am not.
The last time I tried it a DPS died to second divebombs and left the party immediately. Oo
Or tanks running in after one wipe while no one is ready yet.
PF isn't much better than DF.
We only had one other person that really wanted to practice. The others didn't even talk or answer to questions if they know the strategy ... well ... 3 motivated players still aren't enough for T5, even with ilvl 100 +.

[LionKing]

Um...No T5 is not hard. And the reward is suitable for its challenge....If you are having problem with T5 at this point, maybe try to learn the fight and correct yourself??? People have been Solo tank - Solo Heal in T5 at the moment. So my suggestion, instead of wasting your time here to complain which is incorrect, use that time to learn and master T5. I will say this outright, unless you beat t5 with your own skill, you stand no chance in t6-8 and t9. If you are not into Coil so much, feel free to ignore my advice.

Also don't ever use DF as a measurement to gauge the challenge level of any content because it is wrong..I even have a TITAN Ex failed on me in DF at this state but it does not make TITAN Ex a challenge fight.

[Limonia]

If you are having problem with T5 at this point, maybe try to learn the fight and correct yourself???

I think the OP has the same problem - how should someone learn the fight if no one's there doing it to LEARN it?

People who still need to beat T5 are rare (or just don't do it / buy it / have a huge FC helping them).
So you'll find maybe 2 or 3 people through PF that still have to clear it and need a little bit practice. Sometimes it's enough to just see a phase for yourself to know how the guide meant it.
But if you're 4 new people and 4 people that joined to "help" but already have experience, these people will just insult you if not everything runs perfect on the first try.
So you can't LEARN it actually because everyone leaves after that.

I want to learn the phases but couldn't practice phase 4 yet. That means that the next time I'm trying it I will know the phases before but when I'm at phase 4 it's possible that I mess up because I still have to try for myself how to dodge twisters and so on. And then everyone leaves again because you only ever have one attempt according to all the perfect players that never had to learn this fight, they were just born knowing what to do. At least they act like that.

[Samsta]

instead of wasting your time here to complain which is incorrect, use that time to learn and master T5.

The thing is I am not here complaining, but voicing my own opinions with other players and hearing their opinions on the matter, and that doesn't exclude me from still practicing t5 when I can. Isn't that what forums are for?

[NoahG]

We only had one other person that really wanted to practice. The others didn't even talk or answer to questions if they know the strategy ... well ... 3 motivated players still aren't enough for T5, even with ilvl 100 +.

The exact same thing happens in SCOB, assuming that you clear T5 you will face the same problems in T6+, what you gotta do is try form a ls you start with those 3 people interested when the party dissolves you put up another PF and you'll probably find a 4th person interested in practicing who you invite to your ls and so on and so forth, after some time you'll end up with a solid group and possibly a static for T5+. You have to remember it took like 3 months for ppl to start beating T5 back in the day, even though it's much easier now than how it was back then it still is a challenging fight and requires a high level of commitment, keep at it and you'll do it eventually we have all been there before.

Good luck!

[LionKing]

Note: Challenging and not enough rewarding.... Sound like much a complain to me, rather than just a simple of voicing one opinion. Have you ever thought through these question beforehand?

1/ How exactly that T5 is challenging, in what way, with 20% echo buff and most everyone's gear right now is ilv 95+???
2/ Why do you think T5 not give enough rewards compare to its challenge level (again in what way???), given it is the old content made for the past?
3/ You compared T5 with LEVI extreme, one was made before the other and both were made with different kind of ideas in mind (Coils are for Hardcore players vs Primals Ex are for most of the player base)
4/ How in the world and why do you think, just because people fail at T5 via DF, that you think T5 is challenging, yet not enough rewards???
5/ Your idea is to raise the rewards, (aka better ILv loots), so people have easier time to do T5 which is completely wrong. ILV, Echo does not make a good player, Skill and the knowledge of the fight distinguish a good player from a bad player.

All I can get from your OP is :

A/ You think T5 is challenging because you fail at T5 with a pugs group via DF -Wrong.
B/ You think T5 is not rewarded because there are many contents out there, easier, give better loot- Wrong
C/ You want T5 gives out a better loots, suitable for its challenge - Wrong again. Because it is not even hard, let alone challenge.

That is why I said, instead of wasting your time here, find help from your friends, and learn the fight. Even as casual, I hardly believe you can't even find a group of 7 players that are capable of teaching you in T5 and complete it, like somebody said "It is rare to have people that is in need of t5 to run with" . You don"t need people who are in need of t5, you want people that are able to help you clear T5 which is 90% of our players base at this state. I believe you may have tried and failed, but you hardly try hard enough for yourself yet. So try again, this time tackle it hard. Then you can say that whether T5 is rewarding or not, given its challenge level upon completing it. And if you think finding a group of people capable of clearing T5 is hard, I don't see how much easier you can find a group of people capable of clearing higher coil.

P/s Titan ex is more challenge than T5. You know why? Because T5 can still be cleared with 5 people and the dead 3 can still be revived while as in Titan, one wrong move you are gone forever!!!

[zemogFC]

You're trying to beat old content. Old content gives old rewards.


2nd Coil is pretty much pointless now as well. i110 gear is dropping from the sky.

[Niamh_Rillemaugh]

If you are struggling on turn 5 with 20% echo and higher Ilvl gear then was available in 2.0 you have no business attempting second coil anyways.

In my experience, most of the people stuck on Turn 5 are new, had the bad luck to not clear it earlier, or are the bads who were gated behind it before everybody was geared out to the nines. OP said they're struggling to find a competent group, and I can empathize with that. I switched to Monk because healing that fight is a nightmare if people aren't adequately prepared.

So no, you aren't going to clear it in DF.

Oh man, I must not be in Second Coil then! I actually found DF groups to be more consistent skill-wise than PF groups. Maybe it was just luck, but I never got past snakes with any PF group, but beat it through DF.

[Samsta]

1/ How exactly that T5 is challenging, in what way, with 20% echo buff and most everyone's gear right now is ilv 95+???

It is challenging since it still has many mechanics that need to be mastered (divebombs, twister) that will kill you no matter the echo and ilvl, and finding a group able to handle all those is challenging

2/ Why do you think T5 not give enough rewards compare to its challenge level (again in what way???), given it is the old content made for the past?

The devs actually have made old content to have a meaning (hard modes in trial roulette, mounts in extreme modes, desynth materials from high level dungeons and hard modes) so people would still do it, first coil doesn't have any meaning so people don't do it, and that is not problematic since it is very easy now except turn 5 which is still challenging

3/ You compared T5 with LEVI extreme, one was made before the other and both were made with different kind of ideas in mind (Coils are for Hardcore players vs Primals Ex are for most of the player base)

Yes they still give the same ilvl weapons, which doesn't make sense to me if the other is much harder than the other, but maybe this is just me.

4/ How in the world and why do you think, just because people fail at T5 via DF, that you think T5 is challenging, yet not enough rewards???

The idea comes from the fact that I have completed most of the content I have done (ex primals except ramuh) via df without that many problems, while I have much harder time with t5

5/ Your idea is to raise the rewards, (aka better ILv loots), so people have easier time to do T5 which is completely wrong. ILV, Echo does not make a good player, Skill and the knowledge of the fight distinguish a good player from a bad player.

I would not say raising the rewards is the right way, but giving something new (for example mount) so people would start doing it,which would mean that a player that has yet to complete it would get more parties that have players that know what they are doing so they can learn the fight, insted of just running to parties full of new players who have no idea what they are doing, I am fine with new hard content not being beatable with df, but since t5 is very old content now it should be

That is why I said, instead of wasting your time here, find help from your friends, and learn the fight. Even as casual, I hardly believe you can't even find a group of 7 players that are capable of teaching you in T5 and complete it

The thing is, in my experience not many people who have completed the fight want to do it again just to help people, and I am not a player who likes to buy runs.

P/s Titan ex is more challenge than T5. You know why? Because T5 can still be cleared with 5 people and the dead 3 can still be revived while as in Titan, one wrong move you are gone forever!!!

I have to disagree with you on that, titan ex is mostly just a individual effort, not much group effort in it, and I find it to be much easier than turn 5, much more completable with df group

[Sessurea]

T5 is just knowing what to do , more or less. The execution of it really isn't much of a hassle.

And yh, the biggest gate to any content in this game, are the 7 other players with you, or even worse, not with you. Make a LS for your friends and join a progressive FC where you can get help with such things.