Goodbye cleric stance.. you will be sorely missed

[Liselsia]

I see the community butt hurt has continued. Nothing really to contribute with current conversation but a observation instead.

When FL first came out you had a a lot of DPS being upset they couldnt stand up to MRD and Healers 1v1. The community unanimous response was. "You shouldnt be able to 1v1 a healer, coordinate and work with your team. PVP isnt about being a lonewolf".

Its interesting now that it is flipped and they reduced Healer's ability to 1v1 the outcry is so different. Shouldn't it be the same ? shouldn't Healer have to work with rest of team to change flow of battle ?

[Geologo]

I see the community butt hurt has continued. Nothing really to contribute with current conversation but a observation instead.

When FL first came out you had a a lot of DPS being upset they couldnt stand up to MRD and Healers 1v1. The community unanimous response was. "You shouldnt be able to 1v1 a healer, coordinate and work with your team. PVP isnt about being a lonewolf".

Its interesting now that it is flipped and they reduced Healer's ability to 1v1 the outcry is so different. Shouldn't it be the same ? shouldn't Healer have to work with rest of team to change flow of battle ?

Obviously I agree with the "you have to be cooperative" but:
1 You have to remember that in PvP healers are the "tank" or anyway the first target, so you have to let them the ability to survive, and if someone think that offensive skill doesn't affect your survial ability, you are wrong (in my opinion, I won't flame anyone >.<), because after that you run away from a enemies for a minute, he will continue to attack you.2 Healers HAVE cleric stance, and remove it really burst out your ability to do damage, up to now if you capped your party and they are still not able to kill enemies, you can't do a decent support, the DPS support that usually skilled healers in PvE can give and that is part of your job.
Even tank has DPS buff in order to give a DPS support and I think that it is the design of all the non DPS classes, if you already did your task (healing, tanking) help with DPS.
ANYWAY, if a lot of people say that healers in PvP are problematic, ok let's adjust it, but in my opinion they removed half of the task of SCH/WHM, and it is really demotivating for the ones that love to do Healers in PvP at their best.


First of all I woulded do a progressive MIND nerf due to the number of healers in party, or if you have more than 3 healers in party make Cleric stance not usable, or also charge a little LB to all near enemies when Healers overcure.
And then if you think that heal potency is too high (I don't think it), make AoE heal cost higher or give a little nerf to MIND or give a max number of stacks for Regene.
If SE think that anyway healer damage are too high can remove the 10% to your DPS during fight, or make Lustrate usable only when not in CS or make CS affect the Fairy healings or even, in order to dis encourage DPS switch, give an higher recast time to Cleric stance (like 12-20 Sec).

Most of those suggestion was submitted here and I think they are really good, but they just removed an ability and hardly changed the role of a class that didn't, for obviously reason like tanks that don't have enmity, have any need of rebuild.

I really don't like flames, and I really would like to know by both player that agree and disagree with the CS removal if the implementation of one or more of those suggestions would make FL and WD enjoyable for all.

Ty all for attention and sorry about the long comment

[Domira]

snip

So you acknowledge that healers are the tanks in pvp. Alright...so...

Healers are suppose to be tanks, dps and healers in pvp?

All other classes are just dps, some with very minor healing capabilities. The pve tanks PLD, MRD are reduced to mediocre dps classes in pvp. Would you suggest that all other archetypes be given away to heal themselves (effectively) without needing a healer in order that they may defend themselves? I think if this happened we would have a game similar to gw2. Where each class is self sufficient and in need of no outside assistance.

[Adrian74]

Obviously I agree with the "you have to be cooperative" but:
1 You have to remember that in PvP healers are the "tank" or anyway the first target, so you have to let them the ability to survive, and if someone think that offensive skill doesn't affect your survial ability, you are wrong (in my opinion, I won't flame anyone >.<), because after that you run away from a enemies for a minute, he will continue to attack you.2 Healers HAVE cleric stance, and remove it really burst out your ability to do damage, up to now if you capped your party and they are still not able to kill enemies, you can't do a decent support, the DPS support that usually skilled healers in PvE can give and that is part of your job.
Even tank has DPS buff in order to give a DPS support and I think that it is the design of all the non DPS classes, if you already did your task (healing, tanking) help with DPS.
ANYWAY, if a lot of people say that healers in PvP are problematic, ok let's adjust it, but in my opinion they removed half of the task of SCH/WHM, and it is really demotivating for the ones that love to do Healers in PvP at their best.

+1, true story.... I like to give super DPS support with all my nooby classes, or at least try it. That's why I rarely use PLD, only sometimes, bosses or things like that, mostly in dungeons I use warrior for adding extra damage, using storm's eye combo instead of path, always taking care of malm, berserk combos... etc. And with my healers it was the same. The FFXIV logic is that all non DPS shall DPS a little at least, just a little less than normal DPS (20-40% difference).

Yes, healers are supposed to be tank, healers and DPS in PvP, it's not nothing new. A SCH is healer tank and DPS in PvE already, unique class that can solo some A ranks and those thingies.

[Hailie]

Yes Healers do end up being tanks because they are the first to pretty much be attacked, btw DPS cant defend them selves completely without a healer...
and healers shouldn't have to rely on being rescued. It's very unlikely a healer will be rescued unless they are in a premade.

When they aren't in a premade its every man for him self, ppl trying to get the most kills or highest dps or even the most heals.

[Gor]

Would you suggest that all other archetypes be given away to heal themselves (effectively) without needing a healer in order that they may defend themselves? I think if this happened we would have a game similar to gw2. Where each class is self sufficient and in need of no outside assistance.

i had actually made this suggestion months ago in forums, because its the class model i am used to in other mmos. i actually see that as this game's downfall, EVERY class in this game is 100% dependent on the healer except GLA/PLDs and MRD/WARs. but i wasn't suggesting every class have some kind of heal, i suggested that every class be given survivability skills because as I see it, the dps in this game don't have any which is why the healer is such a big focus. the domino affect that if the healer dies, then they are all dead, is so boring and flat, it ain't even funny. even in WD if the healer dies, the rest of the team just stops attacking and just accepts their deaths. what kind of pvp model is that? lazy, if you ask me. the battle should STILL be able to carry on without the healer. BRDs should be able to heavy so they can kite to survive. casters should be able to teleport that aren't on long cd's or some kind of real damage absorption shields and not the crappy ones BLM get or the punching bags that SMNs are. MNKs and DRGs shouldn't be so squishy and given some kind of ability to harden their skin.

i feel that all the dps's defensives in this game are terribly weak, short and are on too long of a cd for any of them to even be beneficial. if every class had their own oshit ability so they wouldnt have to rely on a healer, it would make the game play not only more interesting, but would also encourage players to play more aggressively, would make classes more fun to play and not so scared to put themselves out there (i.e. BLMs having to hide behind walls just to dps is ridiculous).

[Sonoran]

Every class has basically a specific role, DPS, Tank or Heals. In FL's healers are the only class that get to do 2 things(heals and DPS), and of those they do heals very well and DPS ok...ok enough to kite and kill any class combined with heals. This right here is why cleric stance was removed. Too good at 2 things, in essence it means overpowered. SE knows better then to touch healing, so DPS had to go..and its not like you cant DPS, its just garbage now...just like my heals are garbage..I would say that's fair. If healers want to DPS in FL's go get some new gear with INT, just like if Warriors want to increase DPS we had to go get more STR accessories to replace VIT.

I hear healers complain a lot about being targeted first so they should have more abilities to "tank", also want heals, also want DPS...no...you don't get to be good at everything. Soon as I get better heals and or more DPS then sure.

[Hailie]

I hear healers complain a lot about being targeted first so they should have more abilities to "tank",

Never heard any healers say they need more abilities to *tank* <~~~~ we just end up being attacked first and have no choice but to TRY to stay alive thus we end up tanking.

also want heals, also want DPS...no...you don't get to be good at everything. Soon as I get better heals and or more DPS then sure.

If a Healer is following their group but gets picked off by some DPS that gets overly excited cause they assume we should be an easy kill we should be able to defend our selves some kind of way
instead of having to rely on others to help. And I just have a feeling that if healers start wearing INT and still put out the dmg there will be more complaints.. our heals are already crippled by wearing VIT for the HP.

If ppl still have a hard time killing healers they will find something else to complain about. Just my 2 cents.

[TriksteR]

At least the nerf/adjustment wasn't only for SCHs this time...

[Gor]

If ppl still have a hard time killing healers they will find something else to complain about. Just my 2 cents.

oh you know its coming. people complained about heals, so SE nerfed aetherflow. people STILL came in here and complained about healers STILL being op. SE then nerfed Cleric, even though it has absolutely nothing to do with healing, people STILL came in here and were like YEAH! healers needed the nerf because they were op! and guess what ... people are STILL complaining we are op! people will never be satisfied. even if SE took away all healing skills, people would STILL Complain about healers being op. they'll never stop.