Goodbye cleric stance.. you will be sorely missed

[Gor]

Good for you, but let me make my final speech here ...

put down the koolaid. you got the game the way you want it, so you shouldn't have anything else left to say, so go out there and enjoy your game. but you'll be back crying about something else, i'm sure. haters are never satisfied.

[blowfin]

Is this thread 99% salty healers or am I just imagining things? This has been coming for quite some time because people choose the dumb, easy tactics, rather than trying to make a balanced team. Let's not beat around the bush and pretend as if it wasn't a goto strategy for pre-mades, and groups wanting to dominate the scrubs.

This was the situation:
- SCH's combined damage and healing figures were ludicrous, you'd have to be daft to not realise that.
- WHM Holy Spam was vastly OP.
- Parties full of healers make for very, very boring matches (this is one of the main reasons I stopped doing PvP). As a DPS I absolutely abhor it when there's a ridiculously prolonged battle for a point. Seriously, you can GFY if you set up A and C as turtle groups.
- Other classes have been adjusted recently, some nerfed, some boosted.

So, maybe, some of you should think about how this was effecting the game before crying foul? People seem blinkered to the fact that PvP had become quite boring, and was much too difficult for players to get into. Probably quite an easy thing to miss if you're in the habit of making healer heavy groups.

[Divinemight]

put down the koolaid. you got the game the way you want it, so you shouldn't have anything else left to say, so go out there and enjoy your game. but you'll be back crying about something else, i'm sure. haters are never satisfied.

Thank you for preaching me the idea that individual fun is more important than game balance. What was I even thinking? Why I even bother with sharing crucial information from JP site. I have ia sole GC that have ability to run all healers Premade. I also in a Twin Adder PvP linkshell eager to win. I will be actively raise a campign to encourage all Twin Adders just use all healers. As long as we have 4 nodes, who cares about 200 point drones. The game will be over before that drone show up anyway. You are very inspiring, The Twin Adder will worship you in honor once we dominated Aether and Primals.

Thank you

Of course you don't like Marauder, they are the only job that able to critically damage you, reduced your damage done by 10% and reduced your healing done by 50%. 50% of the damage done will transfer to their health. If one is good with Defiance Mechanic, he can output same damage amount as marauder and gain 70% of the health regen. They also can reserve their stun and finish you off at 20% with mercy stroke after Holmgang your pet.

[Alurwen]

Well i'll just interject this as a CASUAL PvP'er with only rank 11 or so. My fav classes are PLD and SCH, i used SCH in PvP. I will no longer be queue'ing up for PvP as i'm not interested in having no access to Cleric Stance when baddies are chasing me down. Call me a scrub if you want but this is preventing casual and new healers from joining the ranks. I want to jump into FL and have fun, not dissect every scenario down to the absolute BiS movement and key click.

So, the queue times will only get longer and longer and longer, until no one is doing FL anymore which is what i think SE wants so they don't have to pay attention to it anymore. I wonder why they even introduced PvP in the first place if they're not going to put the best effort into making it playable. The PvP crowd demands on par game experience with other popular MMO's out there and they're definitely not getting it.

[blowfin]

Call me a scrub if you want but this is preventing casual and new healers from joining the ranks. I want to jump into FL and have fun, not dissect every scenario down to the absolute BiS movement and key click.

Well that's exactly where the problems were arising, just not for healers, EVERYONE ELSE had to do that against turtle groups. Sucks don't it?

Think I made myself pretty clear before, but if this change clears out some of those people/groups who default to cheap, boring tactics, it's a change for the better. Regardless, we'll probably be getting some new FL maps in 2.4, and this will all seem a bit silly in retrospect.

[ZzPixie]

cleric stance should not have been removed.

[Illya]

Healers were stupidly OP, stacking them was broken, and nerfing was inevitable.

Yoshi has the history of being a PvPer in other MMOs he's played, and he's apparently played a lot of Frontline in this game. So he's actually been out there playing the same thing the players have been playing.

I'll let you people keep arguing about whether removing Cleric Stance was the "right" nerf, but no one should pretend that a nerf wasn't necessary.

[joshsecret]

Healers were stupidly OP, stacking them was broken, and nerfing was inevitable.

heres the thing.. stacking healers was/is broken, true.
but the fix to that should have been controlling the amount of healers not removing aspects of play that many of us enjoyed.
i play healer in both PVE and PVP. i enjoy cleric dancing. i enjoy healing and DD'ing.
im not going to change anyones opinions but this change has made me not want to heal there, and as a result, not play FLs period (since SCH was the only job i enjoyed)

[Zyphione]

I seem to miss all the confrontation when sleeping.. ?

I'm sorry if any had been rude to you for providing JP posts. I'm not sure why they would respond that way

All I can say for sure is that 8 WHMs locking down a node is not an issue in NA data centers, so removing Cleric Stance does nothing but make any WHM a sitting duck. Now they simply can't defend themselves when staving off solo snipers and traveling between points.

I see it as NA playerbase did not take advantage of it the same way JP playerbase did? This is same problem in PvE content and Atma grind as far as relative behavior go. I have been playing SCH since cleric stance was remove in effort to see how bad difference really is and the difference is very large but not something that bothers me? I am not saying SqE only takes from JP playerbase, but problem of healer stacking is something NA players have not done yet?
By this logic then that does not mean adjustment should not have been made regardless.

Many say "Why SqE only listen to JP player?" but maybe it is because culturally people are different? I rarely see JP player behave like most NA player where they afk in dungeon or refuse to move from start point unless you vote kick. I have many frontline game played on my character I reference and I have not come across "troll" or "botter"? Maybe sometimes group will be all black mage and sometimes all tank but they never cost us loss in game on purpose.
You can not compare by saying JP community problems in PvP not existent in NA community, it is there but just not being use but still a danger all the same. Similar to Second Coil of Bahamut bug where people skip fight and SqE had to patch it? Not everyone abuse bug but it still there and need to be fixed.
Core logic same, situation different.

Argument many people have with stance remove is that healer cannot defend themselves now.
This is very dangerous assumption because I have not had problem defending myself from others yet, I just take longer time to defeat them. It takes much thinking away from my playstyle since I no longer need to think about when to use stance. I just heal and dot if the dps dare stay and fight.

My damage is very low now but I can beat the dps when exhaust his healing ability. I have also been in situation where some player would hide behind rocks and surprise me as a group of 3 but stance will not help me as I need to heal myself after every few steps. No time to stance and wait the 5 second cooldown to switch out of it because group will defeat me by then by well timed stun after my stance falls and I begin first heal cast.
If your first idea when not having stance is that you run because you have no confidence in own ability to beat up dps then maybe problem is not that stance is gone?

There is no thing called Tank in PvP since everyone ignores tank and they spend most of game chasing black mage yet most tanks have use relative to class? MRD is very strong burst tank that damage calm down after 15 second and defeated easily. WAR is hard to kill tanky class but does decent damage and very good for flag defend when 2 dps try to take it from them? PLD stun very important if team is good at focus target, if not then chase mage and interrupt all LB attempt after his bind/sleep DR wear off on your party.

Discussing if this change was good or bad is silly because for as many situation people give in here it is possible to give counter situation?
Then thread is only meant for complaining on not being catered to? No point to discuss then.
Am I right to say this?

[Fyce]

i'm not talking about being powerful, i'm talking about being able to defend oneself to get out of a situation when being attacked.

In PvP, as a support class, you should not be able to defend yourself all alone to the point where you can kill an enemy.

The only good way for a support class to be able to kill an enemy is this one:

"/p Help me."