Chocobo Dye - The Missing Manual

[Rex]

Okay someone please for the love of Eorzea help me.

Trying to get Dalamud Red following advice I've gotten from the game / that google docs that someone made...and I am getting results ALLLL over the board.

I need that damn Dalamud Red.

First I went Hunter Green...



Then it turned Marsh Green...



Then Blood Red...



Then somehow after feeding some Apples, Lyric went Royal Blue..........



And now Regal Purple.

[Syrehn]

Okay someone please for the love of Eorzea help me.

Trying to get Dalamud Red following advice I've gotten from the game / that google docs that someone made...and I am getting results ALLLL over the board.

I need that damn Dalamud Red.

First I went Hunter Green...
Then it turned Marsh Green...
Then Blood Red...
Then somehow after feeding some Apples, Lyric went Royal Blue..........
And now Regal Purple.

Alrighty, I'll step in here. I think this is perfect time to break down how some of us were suggesting fruit feed values without using the calculator. This is the process that I use to help players obtain, or come close to, their desired plumage colour using notepad and "napkin math".

Chocobo Fruit

Plum - Lightens red hues but at the same time increases green and blue hues.
Apple - Deepens red hues but at the same time lessens green and blue hues.

Valfruit - Lightens green hues but at the same time increases red and blue hues.
Pear - Deepens green hues but at the same time lessens red and blue hues.

Pineapple - Lightens blue hues but at the same time increases red and green hues.
Berries - Deepens blue hues but at the same time lessens red and green hues.

Plum (-5, +5, +5)
Apple (+5, -5, -5)
Valfruit (+5, -5, +5)
Pear (-5, +5, -5)
Pineapple (+5, +5, -5)
Berries (-5, -5, +5)

*Note: Using the +/5 integer for easier calculations as well as the original RGB values.

-------------------------------------------

Starting Colour: Regal Purple
RGB Estimation: 95R, 42G, 71B

Desired Colour: Dalamud Red
RGB Estimation: 113R, 22G, 22B


Napkin Math
This is based on the +/5 integer for easier calculations. Focus on getting 1 value at a time to the desired colour range (I started with G below with the first fruit set), then move on to your next value (I focused on B below for the 2 other fruit sets).

4 Apple (+20, -20, -20): 115, 22, 51
3 Pear (-15, +15, -15): 100, 37, 41
3 Apple (+15, -15, -15): 115, 22, 21 <- End RGB Value

-------------------------------------------

Feeding Suggestions

Combined Fruit Feeding Option
After figuring out the math usually we would combine the fruits (if there are doubles) and then make the suggested feed based on that.

7 Apple (+35, -35, -35): 130R, 7G, 36B
3 Pear (-15, +15, -15): 115R, 22G, 21B <- End RGB Value

Hence the following becomes the feeding suggestions...

x7 Apple
x3 Pear

Micro Feeding Option - Suggested by AttacKat
The Micro Feeding theory (correct me if I'm wrong AttacKat) essentially takes those values and says if there are RGB walls, to avoid hitting them with large amounts of fruit, split up the fruit in a single feed (this could possibly work better for colour loopers). Basically, in this scenario we would just follow the way we calculated out the values in the above "napkin math". If you want to try to "Micro Feed" then feed it in the following order (or break it down even further if you want)...

x4 Apple
x3 Pear
x3 Apple

-------------------------------------------

In either way the end value should calculate out to the same and with this small amount of fruit I don't think you'd hit any colour wall. I double checked my feeding math against Chopski's new FFXIV Chocobo Colour Calculator and it suggested x8 Apples, x4 Pears; which is pretty darn close to the above manual method.

You can choose if you want to mass feed or micro feed based on the above but either combo should result in an RGB of around 115R 22G 21B (assuming +/-5 average integer and using the original RGB spreadsheet) and should push you close, if not into, the Dalamud Red dye range; it might take some additional tweaking to hit Dalamud Red. Remember your mileage may vary.

[AttacKat]

Starting Colour: Regal Purple
RGB Estimation: 95R, 42G, 71B

Desired Colour: Dalmud Red
RGB Estimation: 113R, 22G, 22B

Everything else is pretty close in agreement.

As I noted in my microfeeding thread, that we have no idea if our RGB value are actual in game values, and that is where the "RNG" comes from. The RNG is our "error" in math terms (the difference between an approximate or measured value and an exact or known value).

Using my RGB values, I have

Step	Feed	Qty	103	55	87
1	apple	8	143	15	47
2	pear	3	128	30	32

Target Colour RGB	127	31	31

You actually fall into the Dalamund Red range by the 4th apple, because there is no other valid color in game that uses R in the range of 119-143 and G(31). All the fruits following are just to fine tune the value to (127, 31, 31), as shown below:

1	apple	4	123	35	67
2	apple	1	128	30	62
3	apple	1	133	25	57
4	apple	1	138	20	52
5	apple	1	143	15	47
6	pear	1	138	20	42
7	pear	1	133	25	37
8	pear	1	128	30	32

[Rex]

Thanks Syrehn and AttacKat!

Though according to that Calculator, Dalamud Red is 127, 31, 31!

[Syrehn]

Thanks Syrehn and AttacKat!

Though according to that Calculator, Dalamud Red is 127, 31, 31!

The calculator has likely been modified to use the "Updated" RGB values that AttacKat devised. When it first launched it referenced what I call the "Original" RGB values; noted in the "Resources" section of the first post in this thread.

When I assist players, past and present, I do quick manual math and don't use AttacKat's RGB's; not to say they are wrong. Several users providing recommendations have always used the "Orginal" RGB's with the +/-5 integer (for ease of calculating) in our recommendations and have had great success assisting player's in getting to their desired plumage colour. I also believe those "Updated" values were meant to be used with a +/-8 integer based on AttacKat's original post regarding his/her change to the RGB values, so I'm not sure if the calculator has been updated to reflect that.

It would be ideal if the FFXIV Chocobo Calculator allowed players to choose their preferred RGB spreadsheet values (i.e. "Original" or "Updated").

We can't be certain if either of the RGB colour docs are correct as none of us know the EXACT RGB dye values and as such both RGB docs are a best guestimate. It just comes down to personal preference. I'll likely stick to the "Original" values for my recommendations, unless something more solid comes to light, since it's been working thus far.

Cheers!

[Chopski]

The calculator has likely been modified to use the "Updated" RGB values that AttacKat devised. When it first launched it referenced what I call the "Original" RGB values; noted in the "Resources" section of the first post in this thread.

Yes, I changed it the other day to reflect the 8th scale RGB values, but under Attackats recommendation I left the increment to +/-5. Which is probably why your manual calculation in the post above differed slightly as it would have probably been the same to the calculators a few days ago. I changed it purely based on the success with the new values. Seems to be more solid. But like you say there is no right or wrong at this stage, it's probably just lucky RNG. I will see about adding that option in.

Edit: Option added so you can choose the RGB scale you want now. Have also noticed that a lot of recipes are the same using either scale. But I did take a few gambles on recipes that differed for testing before I originally changed the values and they seem to be going in the 8th RGB scales favour.

Also, I have gone from Soot Black > Dalamud Red > Lavender Purple > Seafog Blue > Peacock Blue all intentional and all single feedings without needing to tweak using the 8th RGB scale.

PS: Did lavender purple to confirm that it was the correct name and not lavender blue and it is in fact lavender purple.

[AttacKat]

Chopski,

Fine tuning suggestion, which can be applied to both methods.

I am noticing on some of your results, your allow a difference of more then +/- 5. So my question here comes down to is "what factor" are you using to determine the final fruit combo? In most cases, this will not be an issue because the RGB delta from one color to the next is huge, but I am seeing this being more problematic with those color trap/loop areas.

RE: "Lavender Blue" is the dye as listed on the MB, guess SE changed the color name on the chocobo color.

[Chopski]

Chopski,

Fine tuning suggestion, which can be applied to both methods.

I am noticing on some of your results, your allow a difference of more then +/- 5. So my question here comes down to is "what factor" are you using to determine the final fruit combo? In most cases, this will not be an issue because the RGB delta from one color to the next is huge, but I am seeing this being more problematic with those color trap/loop areas.

RE: "Lavender Blue" is the dye as listed on the MB, guess SE changed the color name on the chocobo color.

Yes, I need to figure that one out. Problem is, the calculation starts off by rounding to the nearest 10, purely because 2 fruits increase the increment by 10. eg; 1 plum + 1 valfruit = Blue +10.

Think I need to hold on to what it takes off, round that to the nearest 5 and see if collectively 1 more or less fruit would get closer to the final RGB values.

[Syrehn]

Yes, I changed it the other day to reflect the 8th scale RGB values, but under Attackats recommendation I left the increment to +/-5. Which is probably why your manual calculation in the post above differed slightly as it would have probably been the same to the calculators a few days ago. I changed it purely based on the success with the new values. Seems to be more solid. But like you say there is no right or wrong at this stage, it's probably just lucky RNG. I will see about adding that option in.

Edit: Option added so you can choose the RGB scale you want now. Have also noticed that a lot of recipes are the same using either scale. But I did take a few gambles on recipes that differed for testing before I originally changed the values and they seem to be going in the 8th RGB scales favour.

Also, I have gone from Soot Black > Dalamud Red > Lavender Purple > Seafog Blue > Peacock Blue all intentional and all single feedings without needing to tweak using the 8th RGB scale.

PS: Did lavender purple to confirm that it was the correct name and not lavender blue and it is in fact lavender purple.

From watching the "Micro Feeding" thread it appears that there are just as many "course corrections" using that method and the 8th scale RGB's as there was when we were recommending based solely on the "Original" RGB's. Based on what I'm seeing as people post results I would not say, at this point, that it's more accurate as the side note on the FFXIV Chocobo website says.

I do believe that the discrepancies some users are experiencing to get some colours from posted feeding recommendations (on either RGB scale) is due to an internal RGB dye range (this was also mentioned in the micro feeding thread) and that I don't think everyone is at the exact same internal RGB value which adds an "rng" element to calculations for either RGB scale, hence I usually add "mileage may vary" to any feed recommendations I post.

Thanks for putting in the option to select from both. If I do any Feed Suggestions in the future it's handy to be able to double check my manual math against both scales quickly. It appears that regardless of using "Original" or "8th Scale" RGB's (when using +/-5) that a great majority of the fruit recommendations do end up almost identical to each other; I've even done a few simple manual dye calculations and checked against both calculator options and noticed the same thing.

[AttacKat]

I do believe that the discrepancies some users are experiencing to get some colours from posted feeding recommendations (on either RGB scale) is due to an internal RGB dye range (this was also mentioned in the micro feeding thread) and that I don't think everyone is at the exact same internal RGB value which adds an "rng" element to calculations for either RGB scale, hence I usually add "mileage may vary" to any feed recommendations I post.

IMHO, which RGB value we use, doesn't really matter too much, since all the methods uses the same +/- 5 factor. So there shouldn't really be too much difference other then 1 or 2 fruits.

But what is more interesting is this "range" business. As I said in micofeeding, everyone has been so busy and focused on getting to the color they want, there has not been any tracking/data logging of the range a given color has based on the fruits people have fed their birds. Since I stop paying attention to the the R&D thread after post 700th or so, there must be some kind of pattern if one exists.

I believe from the microfeeding method, we finally are starting to see that single feeding of the right fruits in the right pattern can nail the color on the spot starting from Desert Yellow, more importantly, allows the feeding to be duplicated. If we find this is true as more people applies the method, we can then move on to this "range" business, and start to include that into coloring factors when we jump from one color to the next. But I think this range is going to be a long project, especially if SE doesn't have a fixed range for all the colors (more RNG? LMAO).