[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

[Xaeth]

It's good to be skeptical. It's why I never believe a vast majority of Summoners want the class reworked. I'm not sure if you joined the game recently, or just the forums, but this SMN outcry is definitely far less the Warrior outcry. A class that was clearly and definitely weak as opposed to a class that is strong. Feelings aren't a good enough reason to rework what is established into something that it's not. Although, from stories I've heard, World of Warcraft did such a thing (except it made the class worse).

Hi!
As a short introduction I started playing the game at the release of 2.0. Back then I played mainly scholar on Odin. Originally I wanted to play Summoner and I had high expectations of what the class could be but Summoner didn't end up what I hoped it was and I found myself enjoying playing Scholar a lot so I decided to switch. After about 2-3 months, I decided to take a break from the game (around then the standard week was pretty much AK/WP runs till I hit myth cap and outside that I helped out my FC with their Coil runs. After a months break I found that I didn't feel like returning so I quit playing the game. Then this summer I felt like playing again and I wanted to see what had come out in my absence so I started again but on a new server this time.
This ended up being longer than I thought :P

I don't mind people wanting the class to stay what it is but when those people harass other people for having a different opinion, I get angry.
I don't believe harassment has any place in this forum and I've only commented people who are blatantly mean to other people just for having a different opinion.

[Akiza]

The problem with the Egis is they look cartoony and out of place next to the player as opposed to Carbuncle and Topaz.

The Summoner is suppose to be a Pet based Job but instead we got a Debuffer with a small dinky pet that we have very little interaction with. The Summoner is the template for how Pet Jobs are going to work in the future so everyone thinking that Beastmaster and Puppetmasters are going to be pet jobs with interesting mechanics will be disappointed. The Beastmaster will be a Marauder with a pet being used as an auto attack and the Puppet Master will be a Pugilists with a pet in the background.

[Xaeth]

The problem with the Egis is they look cartoony and out of place next to the player as opposed to Carbuncle and Topaz.

The Summoner is suppose to be a Pet based Job but instead we got a Debuffer with a small dinky pet that we have very little interaction with. The Summoner is the template for how Pet Jobs are going to work in the future so everyone thinking that Beastmaster and Puppetmasters are going to be pet jobs with interesting mechanics will be disappointed. The Beastmaster will be a Marauder with a pet being used as an auto attack and the Puppet Master will be a Pugilists with a pet in the background.

I, myself don't really mind the size of the pet since a larger pet would create problems for other players by being in the way and when it comes to the visual representation, I couldn't care less.
One thing I do agree with you on is the fact that I would like more abilities that interact with the pet and less dotbased-damage.
For me it comes down to the fact that I don't like Arcanist and tho it's made to fit both Summoner and Scholar, in my opinion it fails on both accounts.(Summoner is adapted to fit Arcanist and not the other way around and Scholar hardly gets any useful abilities from Arcanist that they couldn't have gotten from cross-class anyway)
Although I'm not a fan of the current version of Arcanist/Summoner, I don't think it will affect other potential pet-based classes/jobs too much.

[Dwill]

You pretty much take and replace ruin with Rouse, Spur, Enkindle and Shadowflare when fitting. Is that what you call a different playstyle?
Two of these abilities does pretty much the same thing which is a damage boost to your pet and one is a nuke that you can use once every five minutes.

Sure Miasma II, Shadowflare and Enkindle is a nice improvement to Summoners AOE capabilities but they hardly change the playstyle.

And if you want to invalidate my argument you might wanna add how these abilities make such a huge difference in playstyle. Just naming abilities isn't an argument in itself you know.

The fact is that all of these abilities can and will also be used on single target under certain conditions as well as being used in AoE, therefore they can and will alter the playstyle depending on the situation, which is something that any remotely competent summoner will tell you. The fact that you claim:

I can promise that there's no bloody difference in playstyle between summoner lvl 40 and lvl 50

speaks volume about your actual knowledge of the summoner class.

[Exstal]

L40 SMN doesn't do anything with pet, L50 SMN needs to do stuff with pet or be a dead weight.

[VanilleFang]

I don't really see an issue with the SMN job. It may not be what people expected or they may not like certain cosmetic aspects of it, but that doesn't really warrant a rework. Why would they rework a class that is strong? It doesn't really make sense.

[Madoka]

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There is a difference in using SMN on the overworld and 4man content compared to using SMN in coil/ex primals

Also your other post about "replacing ruin with X other things", no if you replace Ruin with an off GCD buff you are losing DPS. Like a lot

[yorjen]

my 2 cents:

the main problems im seeing here dont come form the summoner they come form the arcanist itself explained more deeply

first
arcanist itself does around 2/3 of the damage and pet does the 1/3 remaining (it may hurt say this but) that is mistake damage should be 50/50

Second
arcanist skills are no way related with your pet example, ruin will keep doing the same no mather the pet you pull out
and in my personal opinion that should be changed Ruin RuinII and miasma should be linked to the type of pet you are pulling out

[yorjen]

As Example

Attacker pet
Ruin adn RuinII will cause +% extra damage and miasma will cause % total damge as instant when is cast <-- perfect for add burning

Caster pet
Ruin and ruinII will leave a dot will cause % extra damage over time (not affected by fester) miasma will cause % extra damage for each of the diseases over
the target (Ruin and RuinII dot will affect this) <--- perfect for boss fight

Guard pet
Ruin and ruin II will generate a shield that will prevent X damage to your pet Miasma will cause your pet will regenerate
heal when your pet cause damage the enemy over is duration <-- perfect for solo playing or emergency tanking

http://imgur.com/WBaIWda

this meter should show how damage will be handled color should be self explanatory

theres more stuff but im short time right now ill write it later

[MercuryD]

my 2 cents:

arcanist itself does around 2/3 of the damage and pet does the 1/3 remaining (it may hurt say this but) that is mistake damage should be 50/50

This is what will separate ACN from SMN, these are normal ACN numbers. Both ACN and SMN have access to one 30-second cooldown to increase their pet's numbers by 40%. SUMMONER has an additional 60-min cooldown that increases pet damage by 40%. I'm no mathematician but 40+40=80 and 80 is a significant boost. True these aren't constant numbers but part of what makes a good summoner is keeping these up unless you have a reason otherwise.