Reporting FC leaders who know about cheaters?

[Aegis]

As i've said in first post i've alerted this FC leader several times now about the bot, hes aware.

Aware of what? How can he be sure you're not making it up?

He doesn't have the powers to investigate that GMs do. What you are describing is a witch hunt.

[Ryel]

Aware of what? How can he be sure you're not making it up?

He doesn't have the powers to investigate that GMs do. What you are describing is a witch hunt.

Essentially this.

While you can try to do a player "investigation" (I use this word very lightly as players don't have access to GM tools etc) on your own and take it upon yourself to alert an FC leader that one of their members may or may not be using 3rd party tools, the call really falls down to the FC leader as to whether or not to act on your word and really has no bearing ToS wise.

There really isn't a "Report this player for not removing someone from their FC based on player speculation" clause in the ToS and if there was one i assure you the backlash would be monumental.

Your best bet is to let the people who are supposed to handle this (The GMs) handle it, if you wish to notify an FC leader of your suspicions of a member you can do so but that road pretty much ends there.

[Maddonious]

Aware of what? How can he be sure you're not making it up?

He doesn't have the powers to investigate that GMs do. What you are describing is a witch hunt.

You can tell a bot by watching its movement and if it doesn't respond to your replies. I am not new to the reporting game and know how to spot a bot when I see one.

They are pre programed to follow set cords and respond with the same times with every movement and attack. They also do not show human characteristics when behaving such as jumping and taking the long way around rocks/rivers/gaps.

The Leader can warp to my location and see for himself so don't act like they are so preoccupied with their own things that they are incapable of confirming themselves, I gladly tell them the area the bot was in.

[Aegis]

You can tell a bot by watching its movement and if it doesn't respond to your replies. I am not new to the reporting game and know how to spot a bot when I see one.

They are pre programed to follow set cords and respond with the same times with every movement and attack. They also do not show human characteristics when behaving such as jumping and taking the long way around rocks/rivers/gaps.

The Leader can warp to my location and see for himself so don't act like they are so preoccupied with their own things that they are incapable of confirming themselves, I gladly tell them the area the bot was in.

Even a GM wouldn't ban based on this. Doesn't respond to your tells? maybe he doesn't like you (possibly because you report him to the FC leader all the time), in any event he is under no obligation to reply to you. He does need to respond to a GM though, so they are the right people to report to, not your FC leader.

If the FC leader hasn't personally witnessed the other suspicious behaviour you describe (which is again, not sufficient for a GM to take steps) then he has no evidence to go by, just your testimony, which could be entirely made up.

From your description does it sound like he's a bot? definitely
Is it something to report to a GM? definitely
If the player responds to the GM is he going to get banned? Not a chance in hell unless he is implicated in suspicious transactions too.

I am not new to the reporting game

If this is your standard of evidence, I shudder to think how many false reports you may have submitted over the years.

[Maddonious]

Even a GM wouldn't ban based on this. Doesn't respond to your tells? maybe he doesn't like you (possibly because you report him to the FC leader all the time), in any event he is under no obligation to reply to you. He does need to respond to a GM though, so they are the right people to report to, not your FC leader.


If this is your standard of evidence, I shudder to think how many false reports you may have submitted over the years.

He doesn't reply means hes not playing, also doesn't discredit the unhuman characteristics so you can't deny that. He doesn't reply because he doesnt like me? I dont tell him I told his FC leader so how would he know unless the FC leader (whom I told a few times) told him about me, some random guy, who goes around reporting people.

My reports are not false. People just play dumb and blind and I would not report unless im certain. You are just one of those blind people.

Also really? I would lie to a random FC leader about one of its random members doing illegal things? Think about that....... I would randomly spread false lies to try to get some random dude banned under my "uneducated" shot in the dark?

No I tell the FC leaders of the issue to help them clean up their FCs from associating with trash.

I need not say more to you as I feel you are leading me on now and trying to aggravate me.

[Aegis]

He doesn't reply means hes not playing, also doesn't discredit the unhuman characteristics so you can't deny that. He doesn't reply because he doesnt like me? I dont tell him I told his FC leader so how would he know unless the FC leader (whom I told a few times) told him about me, some random guy, who goes around reporting people.

My reports are not false. People just play dumb and blind and I would not report unless im certain. You are just one of those blind people.

Also really? I would lie to a random FC leader about one of its random members doing illegal things? Think about that....... I would randomly spread false lies to try to get some random dude banned under my "uneducated" shot in the dark?

No I tell the FC leaders of the issue to help them clean up their FCs from associating with trash.

I need not say more to you as I feel you are leading me on now and trying to aggravate me.

What distinguishes this player from any other who follows a set path between gathering nodes and has you on blist? You even said he was FATE-botting... how is that even possible? They're not regularly timed.

Raise the report with the GM and put it out of your mind. It's not the FC leader's job to respond to a disgruntled employee (know how i know you're disgruntled? you're looking into reporting someone who has done nothing wrong, but won't back up your accusations when he/she has seen nothing wrong?)

Hell, this other player has a case for harassment if you're trying to have him kicked from the FC behind his back...

I need not say more to you as I feel you are leading me on now and trying to aggravate me.

You seem the type to be easily aggravated.

[Abomination713]

What distinguishes this player from any other who follows a set path between gathering nodes and has you on blist? You even said he was FATE-botting... how is that even possible? They're not regularly timed.

Bots do fate farm. I reported a guy 2 months back with 4 other people cause he was a level 50 PLD with a Novus and was fate farming and he's still around cause he pays a sub. SE is letting botters run around. If you don't know what bots are capable of, you really shouldn't be telling others what's a bot and what isn't. The people that report them know what to look for and can easily tell a bot from a normal player. It's not rocket science (but to you it might be). Just because you can't tell a bot from a normal person doesn't mean someone is wrong. Just means you're blind and don't want to realize the truth. I've seen bots farm fates, make a b-line to newly spawned hunts using radar, farm monsters in a small area for mats, craft all though the night, and even have a group of them in-sync with each other doing fates in the starter areas. If you don't believe bots can do fates, go to Gridania or Ul'dah early in the morning and go around to the fates till you see 4 bots in starting armor all doing fates with similar names with decent levels. Until you see that, you have no right to comment on what a bot is.

On topic, Maddonious is correct to report FC leaders if they refuse to kick a bot and don't want to see them. It's their responsibility to keep their FC's clean. It's no different than being an accomplice to a crime. The only people that protect bots are those that use them. Just like people that hate cops that have something to hide. It's been proven time and time again.

When I gather, I don't reply to people who try to chit chat to "feel me out", because eff those guys, I'm too busy to accommodate your private investigator game.

Yes, cause I'm sure so many people want to talk to you. Rude people are just going to be rude I guess.

[Aegis]

Bots do fate farm. I reported a guy 2 months back with 4 other people cause he was a level 50 PLD with a Novus and was fate farming and he's still around cause he pays a sub.

Nowhere in this statement does it say how you know he's using any kind of third party tool to farm FATES. Your entire statement is that he's guilty because you reported him. Ignoring the fact that a GM looked into it and didn't back you up

SE is letting botters run around. If you don't know what bots are capable of, you really shouldn't be telling others what's a bot and what isn't. The people that report them know what to look for and can easily tell a bot from a normal player. It's not rocket science (but to you it might be). Just because you can't tell a bot from a normal person doesn't mean someone is wrong. Just means you're blind and don't want to realize the truth.

Lots of name calling in here, but it doesn't particularly bother me that you get this worked up. Again, you are just saying "I know bots better than you do, just because." Even though the one guy you've told me you reported was found by a GM not to be botting...

I've seen bots farm fates, make a b-line to newly spawned hunts using radar, farm monsters in a small area for mats, craft all though the night,

Radar is a third party tool and reportable, of course, but it's not botting. Crafting all through the night is very possible to bot, agreed and that's easy to report. Though again, if a GM speaks to them and they respond, there's no evidence they aren't just macro-crafting and are at the screen at all times. Same with farming monsters, you can set a macro to cycle between targets and attack.


and even have a group of them in-sync with each other doing fates in the starter areas.
If you don't believe bots can do fates, go to Gridania or Ul'dah early in the morning and go around to the fates till you see 4 bots in starting armor all doing fates with similar names with decent levels. Until you see that, you have no right to comment on what a bot is.

I pay my sub (for about four more years than you) so I can comment on whatever I like. I don't deny there are bots, although the low level FATE ones sound more like the multi-boxing that used to go on in V1 at cedarwood all the time. Ie: one person is controlling them all through third party tools, but is actively there to respond to /tells and so is cheating, but not botting.

On topic, Maddonious is correct to report FC leaders if they refuse to kick a bot and don't want to see them. It's their responsibility to keep their FC's clean. It's no different than being an accomplice to a crime. The only people that protect bots are those that use them. Just like people that hate cops that have something to hide. It's been proven time and time again.

I'd like to think I'm protecting those who are accused of being botters until they are found guilty by the GMs rather than this internet lynch mob you appear to be advocating.


Yes, cause I'm sure so many people want to talk to you. Rude people are just going to be rude I guess.

You've certainly managed to be

I'm gonna need more persuading than some this rant...

[Frisque]

You can tell a bot by watching its movement and if it doesn't respond to your replies. I am not new to the reporting game and know how to spot a bot when I see one.

They are pre programed to follow set cords and respond with the same times with every movement and attack. They also do not show human characteristics when behaving such as jumping and taking the long way around rocks/rivers/gaps.

The Leader can warp to my location and see for himself so don't act like they are so preoccupied with their own things that they are incapable of confirming themselves, I gladly tell them the area the bot was in.

When I gather, I don't reply to people who try to chit chat to "feel me out", because eff those guys, I'm too busy to accommodate your private investigator game.

[Ryel]

I need not say more to you as I feel you are leading me on now and trying to aggravate me.

While you may not like the replies that Aegis has given you, they aren't incorrect.

You can tell a bot by watching its movement and if it doesn't respond to your replies. I am not new to the reporting game and know how to spot a bot when I see one.

They are pre programed to follow set cords and respond with the same times with every movement and attack. They also do not show human characteristics when behaving such as jumping and taking the long way around rocks/rivers/gaps.

The Leader can warp to my location and see for himself so don't act like they are so preoccupied with their own things that they are incapable of confirming themselves, I gladly tell them the area the bot was in.

A lot of this is possibly accurate but impossible to verify with the tools available to you as a player.

Speaking from personal experience, I'm a PC player who plays with a controller using a dual monitor setup. This allows me to alt tab and input commands via controller so i can watch movies or browse the web while still doing tasks that require minimal attention to the game like bulk craft orders or fishing or even simple FATE spam for Atma grind.

The volume from other sources or the log spam from crafting / battle / anything else could very easily cause me to miss a /tell if I'm not expecting one, does this mean I'm botting because i didn't respond to you?

This is exactly the reason that players aren't the ones tasked with carrying out in-game investigations on 3rd party activity and even with recorded evidence GM's have a policy of not using evidence submitted from outside of the game (Youtube videos, forums posts) in their investigations because of the caution they have to take when dealing with a player's account.

If an FC leader does choose to follow up on your independent investigation that is entirely their call, but them not following up on your personal speculation is not grounds to report them.

EDIT:

On topic, Maddonious is correct to report FC leaders if they refuse to kick a bot and don't want to see them. It's their responsibility to keep their FC's clean. It's no different than being an accomplice to a crime. The only people that protect bots are those that use them. Just like people that hate cops that have something to hide. It's been proven time and time again.

This would be correct if the FC leader was actively encouraging the use of 3rd party tools and you could prove it, while i agree an FC leader should keep a clean FC it isn't a reportable offense