A fundamental flaw with FL (and PvP in general)

[Divinemight]

I'd strongly suggest you stop talking about things you don't understand.

This is exactly why I am saying both sides are not on the same page. While healer side is defending themselves from pure healer's PoV, the otherside is having issue with those players who turned healer role into a dps role by taking advantage of healer's mechanics.

Since it is very important and i need to to quote it since you seems misunderstand me:

The issue is with those players who use healers (Scholar or White Mage) as DPS role.

Turn on your cleric stance and we get? A fully self functional DPS with high CC ability, medium DPS output ability, and high healing ability. These players mainly show up and attack outpost. They are more tanky than both Paladins and Warriors with damage output that par with DPS jobs by using sprint.

If you take other job's PoV, what are these players showing them? Exactly, they would feels healer is so OP.

I am perfectly aware of what I am saying. Thank you. Yet, did you even try other job on FL yet to find out their PoV because you questioning my knowledge about Frontline PvP?

[Gor]

Turn on your cleric stance and we get? A fully self functional DPS with high CC ability, medium DPS output ability, and high healing ability.

over-stretching. turn on cleric and you'll get a dps that hits for 100 with Ruin and about 300-400 with Energy Drain with a 60 second cd if not all 6 stacks of Aetherflow are on cd. and no, it does not have high healing ability while in Cleric, you would only heal for about 50% less so your 500 heals now turn into 200 and 250 heals which isn't enough to keep anything up if hit hard and especially not enough if it is sustained damaged as the healer would be forced to go back out of Cleric to heal and run. and then only doing half the damage of their initial damage. so no, we are not a fully functional dps in cleric. our damage is gradual, slow, only hits for a limited time, and is only effective on a target that is not getting heals from something else because the damage is so gradual and low that our damage can't out-dps a target thats getting healed.

the only targets we can kill are the ones who try to 1v1/1v2 us, without a healer, which one should not be doing in the first place. if someone is trying to kill me 1v1, i have every right to be able to kill them back and i will.

[Divinemight]

over-stretching.

I am not over-stretching. You have more on your plate as a Scholar. Instead of using vit accessories, you could equip INT accessories and not using Cleric Stance. Most of you guys equip vit accessories is to put your HP treshold above lvl1 limit break. You have more freedom and variety of pattern to play as a Scholar. Scholar is just an improved version of FF11 RDM.

When you play Scholar as DPS, you do not need to worry about being interrupt because all you need to do is to play like a Bard. Keep your target at 20m and just bio and aero and rune 2. You are a good player, you know how to handle meele when they are close, i dont need to write it out for you. Meele hp is about 4k and it only probably take you about 20s to take him down. Reserve your aetheric burst for the limit break.

If you played a lot, you definitely encountered a lot of these players who play healers as dps role.

[Hailie]

Instead of using vit accessories, you could equip INT accessories and not using Cleric Stance. You have more freedom and variety of pattern to play as a Scholar.

When you play Scholar as DPS, you do not need to worry about being interrupt because all you need to do is to play like a Bard. Keep your target at 20m and just bio and aero and rune 2. You are a good player, you know how to handle meele when they are close, i dont need to write it out for you. Meele hp is about 4k and it only probably take you about 20s to take him down. Reserve your aetheric burst for the limit break.

OK! lol earlier post YOU SAID this was a problem!

the otherside is having issue with those players who turned healer role into a dps role by taking advantage of healer's mechanics.

The issue is with those players who use healers (Scholar or White Mage) as DPS role.

OK! lol earlier post YOU SAID this was a problem!

Either you have a problem with healers being able to CLERIC -> DPS or you don't... ? you have contradicted yourself my friend from what you reply to Gor up top

[Divinemight]

Either you have a problem with healers being able to CLERIC -> DPS or you don't... ? you have contradicted yourself my friend from what you reply to Gor up top

Read my reply to Gor. You have variety of play patterns. Vit accessores or INT accessories and switch between clearic stance is depend on individual player's skill. Players with Bard background can keep you check at bay with Clearic stance. Players can also doing INT accessories without clearic stance. If you think you are super good can outplay your opponent, you can go INT with Clearic Stance on.

You have that freedom Hailie, you just need to get out of your tunnel vision world

[Hailie]

The issue is with those players who use healers (Scholar or White Mage) as DPS role.

I think you have Clearly missed 1 of the points Bob is making.. If you leave a Healer unchecked and they have nothing to heal they will possible pop on cleric and start to DPs to help their team, its exactly what I would do.
Thats no ones fault but you are who ever you play FL with. again I said this before.. people want Healers to be defenseless and helpless and just rely on their team mates to survive.

I don't think anyone is misunderstanding what your saying. It seems like you dislike to be challenged when you make a post in a thread, you want others to see your side of the story but you refuse to see anyone else side because you believe only what you say .. It's almost like arguing with a Stop sign.

Shake also said the same thing

1) I agree that a healer should not be able to compete with any damage that a melee or DD caster should do in theory. But the thing is that if a healer is able to put out any damage at all, it's because no one is pressuring them. That's a team problem, not a balance problem. If a Scholar is DoT'ing people up or a White Mage is spamming Holy it's because they have no one to heal and they're given free reign to deal damage. A healer simply should not be given this option because they should be pressured the moment they appear on the battlefield. If they choose to deal damage in lieu of healing in the hopes that they can wipe out your party before needing to heal, then they're taking a tactical risk that may or may not pay off.

[Divinemight]

I think you have Clearly missed 1 of the points Bob is making..

By all mean, Hailie, I am not sure if we are playing the same game. The job you are playing right now, the WHM, has more potential than just a healer. I really dont get where you are getting this notion where WHM cant survive without teammate. If you are playing WHM as a DPS and on puposely challenge a full party, that is beyond me.

Did I ask for nerf on your survivil ability? Go ahead and browse my previous posts, I am strongly disagree that your survial ability (healing) should be touch. It is the offensive ability need to be adress.

I mean, go ahead, browse my posts. I hold different ground, I do not agree about nerf healer's heaing and crowd controlling. Dont hold personal grudge because I made a statement relate to healer, you are just making yourself sound like White Knight.

I was planning to do BLM next, but fine, I will focus on WHM next and try to provide you a video to backup my argument.

[Hailie]

By all mean, Hailie, I am not sure if we are playing the same game. The job you are playing right now, the WHM, has more potential than just a healer. I really dont get where you are getting this notion where WHM cant survive without teammate. If you are playing WHM as a DPS and on puposely challenge a full party, that is beyond me.

Did I ask for nerf on your survivil ability? Go ahead and browse my previous posts, I am strongly disagree that your survial ability (healing) should be touch. It is the offensive ability need to be adress.

I mean, go ahead, browse my posts. I hold different ground, I do not agree about nerf healer's heaing and crowd controlling. Dont hold personal grudge because I made a statement relate to healer, you are just making yourself sound like White Knight.

You missed the Boat completely .. Please reread, What offensive abilities you think needs to be addressed

[Divinemight]

You missed the Boat completely .. Please reread, What offensive abilities you think needs to be addressed

Clearic stance, isnt that obvious?

Unless you want some retard adjustment like remove instant cast from Bio, Aero, and Rune 2 in PvP zone <------ No, thanks to me tho.

You can go ahead and provide your arugement on why you think you need Clearic stance as a healer role in PvP instead of wasting time of personal attacks.

[Skeet]

Swiftcast, Surecast and Equanimity don't work half the time. I can't tell you how many times I've been interrupted unable to cast anything even using these skills.

These skills work fine as their details entail. If it doesn't, you're facing people that know how to counter them with well timed stuns or sleep.

Clearic stance, isnt that obvious?

Let's get real. Cleric stance is not an issue at all.

So, from the way you're wording things, you want a healer to be completely helpless in offense? And even then, with cleric stance, that doesn't turn healers to be anywhere near as good as an actual dps class. Furthermore, if a healer is dpsing, that just means your team is getting decimated. If a healer chooses to dps, that also means less heals their team is going to receive.