A fundamental flaw with FL (and PvP in general)

[Amused]

I said party, not team. And no, they are not necessarily going to die. Paladins can Cover, Testudo, and Stoneskin them as well as stun people to peel. Other classes can stun, bind, and CC in other ways as well. This is all assuming there aren't other healers there to heal the healer that is being attacked as well.

Hilarious that you resort to personal attacks when you're unable to refute my argument.

Anyway, as I said, healers are broken right now. They are too strong compared to every other role in the game and I have presented solid evidence that supports my statement of them being overly powerful. You responded with ad hominem, nice.

How would you feel if Paladins could heal nearly as well as healers do? How would you feel if they could heal nearly as well as healers do AND deal damage nearly as well as damage dealers do? That sounds pretty unfair, doesn't it? Now imagine the Paladin can sprint without exhausting their main resource as well, that's even more unfair, isn't?

Oh yeah, I almost forgot! Healers are the only classes capable of removing debuffs without using cooldowns. Esuna and Leeches are the only skills of their kind and they are ONLY on healers.

[Gor]

stuff

that was not a ad hominem attack , it was the truth. if your entire party/team cannot kill a healer, the problem is your team, not the healer. but anyways, go ahead and keep right on complaining, healers are going nowhere and neither is your ranting.

[Amused]

that was not a ad hominem attack , it was the truth. if your entire party/team cannot kill a healer, the problem is your team, not the healer. but anyways, go ahead and keep right on complaining, healers are going nowhere and neither is your ranting.

It was an ad hominem attack. Do you even know what ad hominem means? He made a personal attack at my ability as a player that was completely baseless otherwise. He did not address my argument. He just attacked me personally. That is ad hominem. That is how you lose an argument. That is how you make yourself look like an ass.

I'm not complaining, by the way, as I couldn't even begin to care less who gets nerfed because I have every class leveled. What I'm doing here is stating facts. Healers are overpowered and it is not even up for debate.

Of course you're going to vehemently deny it though, because you play healer mostly and are afraid of losing your god mode.

[Hailie]

It was an ad hominem attack. Do you even know what ad hominem means? He made a personal attack at my ability as a player that was completely baseless otherwise. He did not address my argument. He just attacked me personally. That is ad hominem. That is how you lose an argument. That is how you make yourself look like an ass.

I'm not complaining, by the way, as I couldn't even begin to care less who gets nerfed because I have every class leveled. What I'm doing here is stating facts. Healers are overpowered and it is not even up for debate.

Of course you're going to vehemently deny it though, because you play healer mostly and are afraid of losing your god mode.

Yep.. again.. its pretty clear that you did not read any of the other post in this thread...again its more then likely you and your team.. you want Healers to be defenseless.

[Hailie]

It was an ad hominem attack. Do you even know what ad hominem means? He made a personal attack at my ability as a player that was completely baseless otherwise. He did not address my argument. He just attacked me personally. That is ad hominem. That is how you lose an argument. That is how you make yourself look like an ass.

I'm not complaining, by the way, as I couldn't even begin to care less who gets nerfed because I have every class leveled. What I'm doing here is stating facts. Healers are overpowered and it is not even up for debate.

Of course you're going to vehemently deny it though, because you play healer mostly and are afraid of losing your god mode.

IF you took the time to actually READ more of the post that are in this THREAD you would see that your complaints have already been addressed! I was not making any personal attacks at your ability as a player It was the TRUTH so you jumped to the defense for no reason.

[tehomegaking]

Suck at killing healers? Go learn how to play in WD. Simple as that.

[Divinemight]

Suck at killing healers? Go learn how to play in WD. Simple as that.

I dont think both sdies are on the same page. The real issue with healers are from having too much tools for offensive, crowd controlling, and healing ability that signficantly decreased DPS's output time on the healer. During 8 v 8 combat over the node, this uptime is futher reduced by healer's teammates. I personally dont think WD experience would help anyone here. Unless you are running with a 3 man premade yourself, most of pug healer will just die pretty fast by opposite's 3 man premade team. DPS players wont get improve by playing WD.

[Shake0615]

The real issue with healers are from having too much tools for 1) offensive, 2) crowd controlling, and 3) healing ability that signficantly decreased DPS's output time on the healer.

1) I agree that a healer should not be able to compete with any damage that a melee or DD caster should do in theory. But the thing is that if a healer is able to put out any damage at all, it's because no one is pressuring them. That's a team problem, not a balance problem. If a Scholar is DoT'ing people up or a White Mage is spamming Holy it's because they have no one to heal and they're given free reign to deal damage. A healer simply should not be given this option because they should be pressured the moment they appear on the battlefield. If they choose to deal damage in lieu of healing in the hopes that they can wipe out your party before needing to heal, then they're taking a tactical risk that may or may not pay off.

2) White Mages have Repose, Fluid Aura, and Stone. Each one can be easily countered by an attentive player so this is really a non-issue. Everyone has multiple ways of breaking (or more importantly, pre-empting) crowd controlling effects.

3) In order to survive in FL, healers have to gimp their own healing to be more survivable. It's standard practice to have healers go full Vit in PvP traits and equip the best tank accessories. But it's a trade-off. If you want big heals, you'll be easier to kill. If you want more survivability, you'll have to decrease healing output. That being said, the notion that healers can significantly outperform competent DDs is completely spurious.

[tehomegaking]

DPS players wont get improve by playing WD.

Sorry but this is just stupid. You don't learn anything in FL because you rely on zerg to get the job done. In such hectic situations, the subtlies of combat are lost in numbers countering combat dynamics. To truly learn, you need to learn in a small scale environment where you have full awareness of whats going on and the luxury of 3+ other players covering for your mistake is removed. 90% of success is based on understanding the system, the nuances and dynamics between the classes. Until players learn all this, they should expect to have problems everywhere. This is why 99% of all FL generation players suck.

If you are unable to see why your healing potency is stronger than dps potency in ilvl80 PvP, you are really just trying to defend your own job instead of being a true PvPer.

In otherwise, if you ignore a key dynamic of healing and come to any other conclusion that that of my own, you are not a true pvp'r? Get real.

The real issue with healers are from having too much tools for offensive,

And yet again you completely ignore the fact that we can't cast if we are focused outside of ONE SKILL. Swiftcast, thats it. Our only other methods of casting are via situation safety skills. They are situational because, you need to be either A: stun immune, or B: at too far a distance to be stunned to use surecast. Same goes for equanmity, and both are subject to pushback. So we have swiftcast as our one viable means of guaranteeing we can use these offensive tools. Outside of that, we have a 30 second cooldown that can easily be made useless, then theres the once every 2 and a half minitues of equanmity that much like surecast, can be easily be rendered useless.
So we have no means of using these offensive tools if people focus us.
Leave a healer unfocused? Well thats on you/your team.

edit: yeah we have the instant aero/bio/misama 2. but they are hardly worth complaining about

Frontline players felt healers are too strong simply because healers have all the tools for offense, crowd control

We have one reliable CC on both heal classes, fluid aura (whm) and aura blast (sch) and then melee countering us with feterward/hg oh and purify/tempered which can be used much more liberally on DPS, on heals we need to save them. Outside of that? Guess what, our CC's have a 2 and a half second cast. Everything I mentioned above applies here. Nothing is reliable outside of swifcast to apply these CC's and scholar doesn't have any.


ITT: People who have no idea how healers work, trying to tell us how things are, lol.

I am strongly suggest you try to play other job on the Fronline and seeing other job's PoV instead of being trapped in one job's tunnel visioned world.

I'd strongly suggest you stop talking about things you don't understand.

[Divinemight]

I'd strongly suggest you stop talking about things you don't understand.

This is exactly why I am saying both sides are not on the same page. While healer side is defending themselves from pure healer's PoV, the otherside is having issue with those players who turned healer role into a dps role by taking advantage of healer's mechanics.

Since it is very important and i need to to quote it since you seems misunderstand me:

The issue is with those players who use healers (Scholar or White Mage) as DPS role.

Turn on your cleric stance and we get? A fully self functional DPS with high CC ability, medium DPS output ability, and high healing ability. These players mainly show up and attack outpost. They are more tanky than both Paladins and Warriors with damage output that par with DPS jobs by using sprint.

If you take other job's PoV, what are these players showing them? Exactly, they would feels healer is so OP.

I am perfectly aware of what I am saying. Thank you. Yet, did you even try other job on FL yet to find out their PoV because you questioning my knowledge about Frontline PvP?