People are being cruel to new players

[Serendipitii]

If you answered no to any of these questions, then you weren't being a responsible player, and it isn't the group's job to keep you up to speed when you show no indication of being considerate yourself.
Given that you're a new player I don't expect you to even know about the Party Finder's existence, so I would suggest you look it up.

another great example of being rude. And since when does a first time MMO player know that they need to be a "responsible" player, and look stuff up on it? It's a GAME. I repeat a GAME. Like buy, go home, and play. And you missed some parts. I'm not a new player anymore. I've been using the party finder every day, as well as the duty finder. I was just saying that my experience was a bad one and it could have been made better if other people weren't so RUDE.

[Kallera]

Again, it's been done on Japanese servers. It works. Everyone is happier. Life is easier.

Easier to bail out at the first wipe? Because that is what I've seen.

Face it, some of the party systems in this MMO facilitate anti social behavior. More pfs are made with restrictions, and narrow requirements that fall apart at the first sign of trouble. If the answer to a better community lies in not playing the game, there is a problem.

[ispano]

another great example of being rude. And since when does a first time MMO player know that they need to be a "responsible" player, and look stuff up on it? It's a GAME. I repeat a GAME. Like buy, go home, and play. And you missed some parts. I'm not a new player anymore. I've been using the party finder every day, as well as the duty finder. I was just saying that my experience was a bad one and it could have been made better if other people weren't so RUDE.

None of the questions they asked mentioned ANYTHING external to the game. The things they mentioned are given to you to HELP you, especially new players. Also, yes, when you have to play with other people, you should think about being responsible, even if you are new. All it takes is the simple thought "Oh, I'm playing with other people, maybe I should put some effort in", like, I don't know, just about ANYTHING you do with other people that isn't a game.

I will never say it's right to treat people poorly, but you also shouldn't be just playing the victim card alone, it doesn't help your stance. If you refuse to look at what YOU could have done better and such, things you could of thought about before that happened, then you also have a problem.

An example. Since you don't do any group content til 15, you should notice people talking in the chat window, even if you aren't. You should also realize that there's no voice chat. So the common line of thought should be that you cannot effectively communicate without a real keyboard, since onscreen is too slow.

[Serendipitii]

We are getting nowhere. The basic point of this whole thing is getting lost and misconstrued.
The point is to be nicer in situations where you'd normally be a jerk. We're all gonna get the newbies, and the crappy players, but we should still be nice to them. If you're THAT annoyed, then just leave. I'd rather be in a party in which someone leaves upon their frustration with another player, rather than in a party where someone makes fun of them and talks crap about the player.

[Edli]

http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...ity?s=t&path=/

Thank you for this. Who would have thought you could find the meaning of a word on the web.

Yes, I did look it up back then. Personally I had no issues but I'm just saying that was the first time I encountered that word, english is not my main language either.

Now all these suggestions in here are good and all but the fact remains that we see a crapload of bad tanks on low lv dungeons. So something, somewhere in the game is not working for people completely new to MMOs and teaching them the role of the tank. I don't know why or what since I came from past MMOs and things like aggro management were familiar to me already.

[Serendipitii]

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There are many reasons why a newbie doesn't know what they're doing. My personal reasons are irrelevant to my original post, I don't understand why everyone is putting my personal reasons in the spotlight. My post was about trying to be helpful rather than hurtful. But if you are wondering so, no I didn't do research, because to me it was just a game that i bought for my birthday, didn't have much time to play so i skipped through a lot of the tutorials and was learning on my own time. i didnt even really know i was getting into a dungeon when it started and suddenly boom there i was with other people, trying my best to figure out why they were all mad. I assumed that I'd be mostly playing solo until i figured out the mechanics at my own pace. It was a game, and i found myself in an awkward situation that could have been less awkward if the people were just nice to me. I was more than willing to learn, but they didn't help.

[YuriRamona]

Easier to bail out at the first wipe? Because that is what I've seen.

Face it, some of the party systems in this MMO facilitate anti social behavior. More pfs are made with restrictions, and narrow requirements that fall apart at the first sign of trouble. If the answer to a better community lies in not playing the game, there is a problem.

What's wrong with bailing out at the first wipe? What makes this different than agreeing to Vote Abandon?

Honestly, leaving the duty and taking the penalty is the best solution in this situation. If someone personally can't deal with a situation, they shouldn't make the other person have to re-queue. Whoever doesn't like what's going on bails the duty.

It's like capitalism. If someone doesn't like the product, they leave it and move on. The party replaces the member with someone who is willing to deal with the problem and keeps going.

The only problem with this is that the duty finder is broken because there's an imbalance of roles.

There's an imbalance of roles because people perceive there to be a marked difference in potential pressure and shame in being a tank, healer, or DPS.

There's a differential in that pressure primarily because of the game's basic structure. For example, it isn't as apparent when DPS is doing a bad job (because performance overall is not visible in-game). Being able to see how good someone's damage is would go a long way in correcting for the DPS roles imbalance.

What's another contributing factor in the difference in pressure placed among the roles? The lack of a culture promoting research and knowledge about your role and duty mechanics. There would be fewer incidents like the one mentioned in OP because people came in to each duty with at least a certain minimum of knowledge and ability, and therefore there would be fewer arguments and less pressure and shame placed on others.

I'm not saying that this is the end-all-be-all solution. I'm suggesting that we can help to partially alleviate the situation.

There are many reasons why a newbie doesn't know what they're doing. My personal reasons are irrelevant to my original post, I don't understand why everyone is putting my personal reasons in the spotlight. My post was about trying to be helpful rather than hurtful. But if you are wondering so, no I didn't do research, because to me it was just a game that i bought for my birthday, didn't have much time to play so i skipped through a lot of the tutorials and was learning on my own time. i didnt even really know i was getting into a dungeon when it started and suddenly boom there i was with other people, trying my best to figure out why they were all mad. I assumed that I'd be mostly playing solo until i figured out the mechanics at my own pace. It was a game, and i found myself in an awkward situation that could have been less awkward if the people were just nice to me. I was more than willing to learn, but they didn't help.

I'm glad the OP is responding. Not to call you out or anything, since it isn't your fault, but rather the game's fault for not instructing players to do research and learn more before spitting them into Duty Finder and Satasha with hardly an inkling about party play before that. It's also the community's fault for not fostering a more educational culture. Players should know to prepare themselves before they start attempting party duties. It's seriously a sharp curve from the easy-breezy solo play until level 15 and then a full multi-level hour-long dungeon of Satasha and beyond.

Players shouldn't be feeling blindly in the dark at the expense of others. In addition, and importantly, joining the Duty Finder doesn't necessarily mean you're willing to walk someone through their role and the duty if they're clueless. Given the abysmally low populations within some servers (and sometimes within entire Data Centers), Duty Finder is almost a necessity and Party Finder is simply not a very feasible option.

We need to be very honest with ourselves about how much we're asking of experienced players to take someone through their very first dungeon or take someone who has little to no idea what is going on. If this game were truly that simple and mindless, why can't they just figure out for themselves? It's precisely because things are rarely intuitive, difficult to explain, and often "you'll know what I'm talking about when you see it" that makes it necessary to direct players to out-of-game resources. (or, if we really care about immersion, for SE to develop much more comprehensive Active Help information and tutorials for each role). I'm sure other MMO veterans can list off games that do a decent job of taking players step-by-step through their role through quests, as they level, or separate tutorials. I think we can all agree that FFXIV's class and job quests require ZERO knowledge about your role in order to clear, and rarely, if ever, tell you how to act in a party.

[Gardes]

So when you don't know what a word means, you don't try to find out at all? Not to mention, the gladiator quest that was mentioned earlier in the thread tells you what flash is used for and does.

This. First time I saw the word enmity was during the early days of FFXI. I didn't know what it was so I went to find out.

[Serendipitii]

in response to Malakhim-- I do fine with other players because I don't mess up anymore. I did fine with the players that actually took the time to help me figure things out. The ones I didn't do fine with were-- you know what. I don't need to explain anything... this isn't even ABOUT me.
this whole post was about new players. I was just giving an example of my first time, and how shitty it felt to be treated so badly for something I didn't even realize I was doing wrong. I didn't realize I was supposed to study up. Many new people don't. I'm just saying we should HELP them, even if they don't ask for help (and be nice, and not condescending about it)
As a healer, I get frustrated as hell with crappy tanks, since I'm the one generating all the enmity.. but I put my big girl pants on and bear with it and offer a piece of advice here and there for them. I don't whine about how they should have studied or should have known, because it's too late, they're already in my party.

[Almalexia]

Now all these suggestions in here are good and all but the fact remains that we see a crapload of bad tanks on low lv dungeons. So something, somewhere in the game is not working for people completely new to MMOs and teaching them the role of the tank. I don't know why or what since I came from past MMOs and things like aggro management were familiar to me already.

There are a crapload of bad tanks in HIGH level dungeons. And outside of dungeons. And on every job, in every game, and real life too.

Some people are too passive and only accept info that is thrust directly into their face. Some people are ignorant and think they have it all figured out when they are very wrong. Some people are just plain dumb.

At least OP was a cool enough dood to post on the message boards in pursuit of understanding, which is more that can be said for most players.