Rogue/Ninja Starting Class?

[silentwindfr]

Also, regardless of any story limitations, ninjas and rogue players will be wandering the world. Trust me, they will be everywhere. I wonder how that will factor into the lore? Will SE block us from seeing any ninjas until we unlock that part of the story?

this one is a bit... you must differenciate gameplay and story, here it's perfectly tie to the gameplay, it's like say, how explain that we can rekill Twintania when we have kill her already. the point it's, that the story is personal, what you unlock for character are your own progression, class, glamour, mount, gc, chocobo training,.... all of this are your personal progression. you are the hero of your own story.

[Giantbane]

if new player want to have acces to glamour, they need to get level 50, it's the same

does glamour require you to level 2 classes to 50? no

want to play monk? level it to 50
want to play blm? level it to 50

want to play ninja? level some other quest to 50, complete the main story, complete the after story up to 2.3 and THEN level nin to 50.

not the same

We will have far more class added, and don't hope, that they will make them a starting class.

nope, I hope all new classes will be available starting classes.

if they want to add new *jobs* that have more advanced unlock requirements but don't start at level 1, then sure. You don't have to start over after you unlock it.

finally like i have said, it's not at us to decide where go the story, it's not at us to complain and want them to... simply create a story that can be ignored. soo far, all i see are complain that are empty, since from the 2.2 it was clear, that the class will be added throught story quest!

anyway, if a new player want to play ninja, all i can say is: play the game and work for get it. since, SE don't tend to offer for nothing stuff (remember the relic?)

In a sense we're providing feedback to SE.

Lock rogue behind the main story? Risk turning new customers away
Allow rogue as a starting class? Nobody will quit the game over this

It doesn't seem like much of a choice but I suppose they can do whatever they want

[MageBlack]

this one is a bit... you must differenciate gameplay and story, here it's perfectly tie to the gameplay, it's like say, how explain that we can rekill Twintania when we have kill her already. the point it's, that the story is personal, what you unlock for character are your own progression, class, glamour, mount, gc, chocobo training,.... all of this are your personal progression. you are the hero of your own story.

but, the same fights that we fought for/with/around the scions who claim to have never seen this fighting style before will end up seeing it, unless you go through the whole game without puging a single rogue or ninja. no matter what, there will be slight inconsistencies. I think all the MSQ have done is brought things into the world. the only way they could properly gate content to make the storyline 100% consistent is to completely gate players by locking doors behind them as well as locked doors in front of them.

All of the comments in this thread are ALL pure conjecture at this point because NOT ONE OF US actually KNOW how they are doing it. But it is fun to discuss while we wait for the big reveal.

[MirielleLavandre]

Like most have said - everyone, including me, posting about this wouldn't really be affected if they decided to gate the job behind 2.3. Most of us have it done and, if anything, could finish up to 2.3 in a night. What the issue is are the new people who this new class and job could potentially bring in as paying customers. Gating it behind having a lvl 50 and done with 2.3 may not seem difficult to us, but as many have said, to a new player seeing a "you can't play the class you want until you level one you don't" looks bad. And in the end, think of it this way:

Current player @ lvl 50 // would you quit the game if they release NIN and ROG playable to all new players at lvl 15 and 30 like all others? Probably not, regardless of lore.
New player or considering // would you NOT BUY the game or subscribe if they don't let you play NIN @30. Quite possibly.

Think of it from a business perspective, not a 'lore' or even 'RPG' perspective. For this or any MMO, if I saw a job I wanted to play, like stalker in Wildstar, but it required me to pretty much finish the game to even open up the class by playing a job I don't want to play, I'd never buy it. There are plenty of other MMOs out there. We are all looking at this from current players' perspectives. I believe SE looks at things from a 'let us try to get more paying customers' perspective. Now, if there ARE 50s who would quit the game should 'newbies' be allowed to play ROG/NIN, then I wonder if they are not the type who just hate letting others have things they think they had to 'work harder' for.

[Erudain]

They can do both, allow new players to play NIN and keep it lore consistent by just re-working some cutscenes. Or having them trigger differently depending if you have NIN unlocked or not.
Bad writting, bad narrative, bad cohesion is also bad for business.....GRRM's "A Song of Ice and Fire" didn't become what it is today by being full of plot holes and temporal paradox errors...

[mythicrose]

Unless one of SE's friendly staff (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) can/will clarify the issue, can we all just leave this as unresolved?

FFXIV wouldn't be the first game to make players actually unlock a class, nor would it be the first to retcon/negate it's own story line. 2.4 is a few months down the road so we'll know then.

Considering how easy it is to get to 50 on main story quests, side quests, the occasional dungeon, it wouldn't be that difficult for a brand new person to hit 50 before their free month expires. Chances are, if that person dislikes how the combat sytem, story, what ever works...that person won't stay just because of a certain class for much longer. However if the person enjoys many aspects of the game they'll keep playing to get that oh-so-desired ninja.

Bad writting, bad narrative, bad cohesion is also bad for business.....GRRM's "A Song of Ice and Fire" didn't become what it is today by being full of plot holes and temporal paradox errors...

True for the books...HBO, though, seems to butcher modify plot as it sees fit.

[Yamimarik]

I feel like this thread is just going in circles now, so I'm just going to repeat myself from my first post.

That's just his theory from another thread. It isn't actual lore just yet. We really don't know anything until 2.4, but in all honesty I could see it going either way. Either we have to wait till your at that certain point (At least for NIN if Yugiri is the NIN npc) to obtain this class/job. Or they just start you out as Rogue and make up new lore as to why it's ok for Ninja to be apart of it from the beginning. We'll just have to wait and see.

We really won't know till then.

[Erudain]

Please don't name those HBO butchers in my presence...

[Giantbane]

They can do both, allow new players to play NIN and keep it lore consistent by just re-working some cutscenes. Or having them trigger differently depending if you have NIN unlocked or not.
Bad writting, bad narrative, bad cohesion is also bad for business.....GRRM's "A Song of Ice and Fire" didn't become what it is today by being full of plot holes and temporal paradox errors...

Games != books

The best AAA games do not sacrifice gameplay for story/lore

They absolutely *should* do the best they can to maintain both the lore and casual/streamlined gameplay experience. However, in the hypothetical scenario where they must choose narrative against gameplay, gameplay should win. This is a game after all.

[NoctisUmbra]

Also, regardless of any story limitations, ninjas and rogue players will be wandering the world. Trust me, they will be everywhere. I wonder how that will factor into the lore? Will SE block us from seeing any ninjas until we unlock that part of the story?

Difference here is there is already precedence for this in the form of Dragoon. As far as the Dragoon storyline goes, there can only be 1 Dragoon at any given time. The title is passed on. If you were to factor all the other players running around as Dragoons, the storyline would make no sense. Therefore, the concept here is other players don't matter in the form of who they are and what jobs they play as far as the storyline is concerned, they are simply referred to as "The Warriors of Light", and their fighting styles assumed to be accommodating to the story.

As far as the storyline is concerned, you alone are the Warrior of Light in this story, or you lead a small band of warriors with you. Your "static" as far as the game is concerned. You, the Warrior of Light in question, and your crew. You, the player, have numerous interactions directly with Thancred. His reaction to Yugiri's fighting style in a post-lv 50 storyline quest would be wholly lore-breaking if you, the latest member and close colleague of his have been running around fighting with the same techniques all this time.

Games != books

The best AAA games do not sacrifice gameplay for story/lore

They absolutely *should* do the best they can to maintain both the lore and casual/streamlined gameplay experience. However, in the hypothetical scenario where they must choose narrative against gameplay, gameplay should win. This is a game after all.

Except Final Fantasy has always been a series that places strong value on their lore. If they didn't intend to gate Rogue and Ninja behind the MSQ, they would have at least had the sense to not develop a whole storyline that makes it essentially impossible to introduce the class and job any other way without shooting themselves in the foot.

I get that having it available as a starting class would be more convenient. However, not everything that would be convenient can be considered good game design. There have to be things to work towards and achieve to keep players playing. They seem to have chosen to make the Rogue class one of those things for 2.0. Perhaps in 3.0 they will be available as a starting class. Who knows.?