Rogue/Ninja Starting Class?

[silentwindfr]

how my argument is empty please?
i did explain why is not possible, but since it seems you need a second time let's do it from the start:

- First the rogue/ninja we will get are not the thief or the doma ninja, they are a new technique that Yugiri will teach to the adventurer (check the 2.2 story, where she said she will learn the thief way of fight and come back later for teach us) it will be something she will create, more adapted and evolved from the two style.
- before the 2.0, never ever ever any doman was seen in Eorzea, actually exept people of the empire, we had never any contact with the rest of the world. the first contact outside the empire, was the people coming for the horse years event.
- before the 2.2 story quest line, we had never any information about a thief, even thancred had trouble for leaving them and was avoiding to contact them. meaning they don't allows stranger to barge into them turf and ask them to teach them way. like any secret organization. even thancred over the whole 1.x-2.x story line have never said to be a thief, we did learn it from the 2.2. before this he was always introducing himself as a bard. (not very convincing after the fight near the lake in the 1.x story line)

anyway, all of this is almost nothing, the trouble here, it's more all of this reason make the new player starting as a rogue, a paradox, he do exist before even the style is create... or the master is here. because Yugiri is not here before the 2.1! while this time she is fighting in Doma, how she can be in two different place at the same time.

your reason is, it's unfair for the new player to have to wait for get the hand on the rogue... well i don't see it like this, i'm envious of the new player that will start with the 2.4, he didn't wait for a new class for 1 years, nor he must wait between the questline of the 2.0-2.1-2.2-2.3-2.4 like we had, he will have the whole story said in one go! from viewpoint he is lucky!

but i will be a bit more rude, all i see in your reason is "we don't care of the story" like i have said before, and Yoshi-P have said before me, this is a mmorpg driven by a deep and continous story, if you ignore this, is your right. however it's a huge miss from your part to simply toss aside the whole story and universe for allows new player to get acces to something they will have anyway.
the game start with the level 50, not with the level 1, you have all the stuff that get unlocked at this level, the progression of your character really start there. not at the level 1!

ps: i highly doubt that the rogue guild will be in limsa lominsa, since even for this city of pirate, they are... criminal. the guild (dojo) will probably be in revenant's toll. and since we can only start in the three city... one more reason (i admit it's only me saying it, but it look logical to see it like this, Revenant's toll did evolve the most in the whole 2.X quest line, get a the new class added to the city will be a normal next step. but we will see. )

Every option people who advocate for ROG/NIN to be usable as a new class has been set out purposely to not be lore breaking. Actively proving this can be done without breaking the lore, helped a lot by the class itself being based on shadow and stealth work and always being a secret.

Remember the Rogue guild is set up, Thancred is a rogue you will learn that from the same guild that taught him, guess what this guild was around before the main story and was most probably active during the main story, this isn't changing any lore it's truth.

Finally if you care so much about it breaking the story, guess what it does jack shit to your story, yours has already been told. all it takes is a bit of fleshing out the Rogue and Ninja story and boom it fits perfectly for new characters who are the ones who will experience this new view on the events, your character won't cause that part of the story has already been told to you.

blocking content of this kind behind the majority of the story only matters to new players, and it's in the players and devs best interest that this content be open from the get go.

like i have said it's not in them interest to open up the class for the new player, it will give them a reason to stay more on the game.
it's not even a good thing for the new player, since it will give them more reason to progress in the story to know that the class will be unlocked like this.

and like i have said over there, it's not the same skill than the thief guild of limsa that we will learn, but stuff from yugiri.

[JakzChurchill]

snip

There is no thieves guild, there is only a Rogue guild which has been around for a long time, and based entirely in Limsa Lominsa, why can you not understand that? The techniques Yugiri teaches will be more akin to Ninja than Rogue.

[silentwindfr]

There is no thieves guild, there is only a Rogue guild which has been around for a long time, and based entirely in Limsa Lominsa, why can you not understand that? The techniques Yugiri teaches will be more akin to Ninja than Rogue.

recheck all the video of the 2.2 quest line, please, it's clear, but well...
Yugiri clearly say that she will be the one to teach the adventurer, when you escort her to the thief, they clearly don't let you in, they only let yugiri... because she have a fighting style close, i don't see them suddenly accept all the adventurer of eorzea when they try to be a secret guild!

Let's run with this. So Yugiri will teach us Ninja skills...before she's introduced in the story. Makes sense?

i will go farer, do you means the player will be stuck with the rogue until yugiri is there? you do remember that the class are often (almost all the time) less effective in group than the jobs.

@exstal: the trouble is they don't care for the lore, for them the lore can be adapted and changed for explain all... but sadly that don't work like this.

@JakzChruchill: they don't have to change the lore, but to continue the story... that the whole point we try to explain for soo many page! because they add something they don't change what exist already, but continue the story already present!

This is a fascinating discussion of alternate possibilities, but hasn't it already been confirmed that Rogue will be a class and Ninja a job? Classes start at 1. Jobs start at 30. If SE wants to add a third tier that starts at 50, it would be something other than a class or job. A specialty, perhaps, or a vocation, a calling, a trade (perhaps that last one works better for an advanced crafting class). Anyway, there are plenty of other terms they could find that don't already have a different meaning within the game.

technically you unlock all the class actual of the game at level 10. you will unlock the rogue and when you will switch of class she will be level 1, but how she will be unlocked that the whole point of this thread

[lololink]

recheck all the video of the 2.2 quest line, please, it's clear, but well...
Yugiri clearly say that she will be the one to teach the adventurer, when you escort her to the thief, they clearly don't let you in, they only let yugiri... because she have a fighting style close, i don't see them suddenly accept all the adventurer of eorzea when they try to be a secret guild!

Yugiri isn't a dev, because she says a thing it doesn't mean that it will be true.
Yugiri might not be the rogue/ninja master.

[Exstal]

There is no thieves guild, there is only a Rogue guild which has been around for a long time, and based entirely in Limsa Lominsa, why can you not understand that? The techniques Yugiri teaches will be more akin to Ninja than Rogue.

Let's run with this. So Yugiri will teach us Ninja skills...before she's introduced in the story. Makes sense?

[JakzChurchill]

Let's run with this. So Yugiri will teach us Ninja skills...before she's introduced in the story. Makes sense?

Who say's Yugiri even teachs us the Ninja skills, maybe she creates a type of fighting that is purely fighting based, so we meet someone else who shows us the Ninjitsu side of things before we meet Yugiri.

Look honestly i've outlined multiple scenarios where you learn the art of ninja before meeting Yugiri, and it's getting a bit aggrevating that people are making the same arguement when i'v already answered it throughout the thread.

But if you want one final explanation here you go, the Rogue guild like the Ninja guild work in secret, even the guilds themselves are very secretive, but people do gain access, this is a given. Now Yugiri comes from a warring country where there main fighting style is beffiting of scouts or spies. Now Doma would definitly had spies in Eorzea, spies who probably found the Rogue guild, and spies who fed back the information that Eorzea was the best place to bring the refuges.

But anything that's secret to Eorzea must also appear secret to Yugiri or it'd give away the fact that they were spying on Eorzea, breaking down relations between the two parties. The ninja story could easily be based around outing the spy within the Rogue guild, then learning from him/her or their contact to become a ninja. By entering the Guild you enter a pact of secrecy, where even letting people know of the spies, would let people know of the Rogue guild, so the guild would decide to deal with the issue internally.

Remember most of the time you fight solo, and if not a fighting style is just that, a fighting style. It only flagged up to Yugiri because her culture had a similar style. And my memories a bit foggy on this one but does she ever see you fight in the story, would she any reason to throw the same questions to you that she asked Thancred.

[Tupsi]

There is no thieves guild, there is only a Rogue guild which has been around for a long time, and based entirely in Limsa Lominsa, why can you not understand that? The techniques Yugiri teaches will be more akin to Ninja than Rogue.

I think it has to do with the fact there's no actual guild present. Arcanist had a guild present and worked "behind the scenes" for "many years" as part of Limsa's "foundation", even during 1.0 days.

Who say's Yugiri even teachs us the Ninja skills

The story...basically tells us she'll be our teacher since she's an important figure and her and thancred basically share the same style about - She wouldn't have been seeking to establish a 'public' guild if she was going to have no part in it.