Rogue/Ninja Starting Class?

[SDaemon]

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And again you dodge. Are you advocating that rog and nin should barred from doing any content pre 2.4, that includes CT, ST and Coils 1 and 2? Because that is exactly the line of reasoning you are using.

[silentwindfr]

And again you dodge. Are you advocating that rog and nin should barred from doing any content pre 2.4, that includes CT, ST and Coils 1 and 2? Because that is exactly the line of reasoning you are using.

if we follow you thought, it means we can only do BC/ST/CT/... any content only one time... you are simply trying to justify a paradox by saying this. you argument are empty and it's pointless to talk to you, since you don't even try to understand... you are simply using new player as escuse for justify the destruction of the story...for what? gain time? hell, we are playing a mmorpg, the most time consuming game type existing... stop please, because either you are a troll or... well, i will stay well mannered.

[TheMunimai]

And again you dodge. Are you advocating that rog and nin should barred from doing any content pre 2.4, that includes CT, ST and Coils 1 and 2? Because that is exactly the line of reasoning you are using.

Well of course they won't be barred from pre 2.4 content.... If rogues and ninjas are locked behind storyline missions then it just means we cant be trained until we get passed that point in the game.

You would have already levelled a character to 50 which would be a starting class and therefore they would have access to pre 2.4 content...?

[SDaemon]

Well of course they won't be barred from pre 2.4 content.... If rogues and ninjas are locked behind storyline missions then it just means we cant be trained until we get passed that point in the game.

You would have already levelled a character to 50 which would be a starting class and therefore they would have access to pre 2.4 content...?

Except lorewise rog and nin didn't exist when traversing Coils 1 and 2 with Alisaie or braving CT or ST together with Cid. Lorewise you can't possibly be rog or nin doing this. That is the line of reasoning she is supporting and its ridiculous. Its that same reasoning people are arguing to lock this class/job behind story, when regardless the story does not change, the story has already happened. Its in the past and you being a rog or nin going through it doesn't change the story that has been told.

[Dhex]

Except lorewise rog and nin didn't exist when traversing Coils 1 and 2 with Alisaie or braving CT or ST together with Cid. Lorewise you can't possibly be rog or nin doing this. That is the line of reasoning she is supporting and its ridiculous. Its that same reasoning people are arguing to lock this class/job behind story, when regardless the story does not change, the story has already happened. Its in the past and you being a rog or nin going through it doesn't change the story that has been told.

You're confusing what's called timeline vs. continuous narrative.

I beat Ifrit EX mode - I got the cutscene but I still go back and fight him - but that doesn't disrupt the quest line because the quest line is over. Being a Ninja before the person that is going to teach you about being a Ninja even arrives ruins the continuous narrative of the story.

[SDaemon]

You're confusing what's called timeline vs. continuous narrative.

How exactly? lol

[Dhex]

How exactly? lol

If you're done with the storyline it doesn't matter you're not experiencing it for the first time anymore - we're specifically talking about new players.

If you read the book cover to cover the first time - you can go back and read a single chapter and not have it be ruined because you've already got the narrative.

All people are saying here - is that if you get the Ninja chapter before reading the book it's breaking the narrative.

[MageBlack]

If you're done with the storyline it doesn't matter you're not experiencing it for the first time anymore - we're specifically talking about new players.

If you read the book cover to cover the first time - you can go back and read a single chapter and not have it be ruined because you've already got the narrative.

All people are saying here - is that if you get the Ninja chapter before reading the book it's breaking the narrative.

I understand what you mean but it in no way means that the R/N storyline cant add to the current narrative in such a way to tie loose ends together. This is not an advanced class/job, YP said the only reason hes adding this class/job in now is because he felt it was missing from the original lineup. otherwise it would wait until an expansion. I'm not disagreeing with the lore arguments only saying that it is possible to have this as a starting class without breaking the game and immersion. If you can't imagine that then thats a lack of creative thinking on your part. Will they have jobs locked behind story and levels? sure, eventually. will this be the first one, I seriously doubt that.

[whiskeybravo]

If you're done with the storyline it doesn't matter you're not experiencing it for the first time anymore - we're specifically talking about new players.

If you read the book cover to cover the first time - you can go back and read a single chapter and not have it be ruined because you've already got the narrative.

All people are saying here - is that if you get the Ninja chapter before reading the book it's breaking the narrative.

It doesn't seem that difficult to have rogue/ninja "chapters" before knowing the whole story of how rogue/ninja came to Eorzea. I still think Revenant's Toll is a good comparison, as new players don't know how it's changed over time, they only see what it is now. Rogue/Ninja would be similar, you have a storyline like any other class/job, then the culmination of how it came to be at the end. You don't have to tell the full story upfront. Veteran players know, and new players come to find out. Simple.

[Viridiana]

Except lorewise rog and nin didn't exist when traversing Coils 1 and 2 with Alisaie or braving CT or ST together with Cid. Lorewise you can't possibly be rog or nin doing this. That is the line of reasoning she is supporting and its ridiculous. Its that same reasoning people are arguing to lock this class/job behind story, when regardless the story does not change, the story has already happened. Its in the past and you being a rog or nin going through it doesn't change the story that has been told.

Gameplay And Story Segregation

You're missing the point so hard it's making my brain hurt. >_<

You can't just say that the story has already happened and therefor you can be a NIN if you want. From the view of a new character, the story has not happened yet. Unless you want new characters to be completely unable to view the storyline up to this point, which would be silly. Remember, if the story has already happened even for new players

then the Waking Sands has already been destroyed, someone's already defeated Lahabrea, Thancred has already recovered from his possession, Cid already has his memories and airship back. . .Basically the entire main scenario isn't a quest they would do.

Remember, even though these are all things that have already happened for established characters, for new characters they have not. It makes no sense for a new character going through the story to have interactions with these characters based on where they are now as opposed to where they are according to that character's story.

And if they aren't going to do those quests, then why would they get the rewards for them? Alternately, if you're saying they've already done those quests, then they should have the rewards for them. Are you going to give new level 1 characters all the rewards for doing all the main scenario quests up to this point? Or are you going to make them do the quests to get the rewards? If you're not going to give the rewards at all, we won't get any new players/characters. If you give them to level 1 characters, I know how to tank the Savage Might IV market. If you make them work for the rewards, well, we're back to having to do Through the Maelstrom to get NIN training, because that's the only way for Yugiri herself to train the character.

And before you bring up NIN in pre-2.2 dungeons, just give it up. The game already separates dungeon composition from lore, otherwise you could never have 2 WHM in one instance. No one's arguing that NIN should not be allowed in pre-2.2 dungeons except for your strawman. All anyone's saying (that I've seen) is that you should have to complete 2.2 in order to be trained by the NPC introduced in 2.2, or else face a plot hole (or massive, wasteful retconning).