Can we just have the Wrath of the Lich King Raiding Scheme?

[Alukah]

snip

I really don't want to belittle your post, but your whole argument revolves around "it should remain special/exclusive" without giving any solid reason. What's the benefit of keeping raids locked to the hardcore? What's the drawback of creating a second difficulty that would not interfere with the hard mode, considering they would have different rewards? How does it help the community or the game to keep things like that?

The problem is how much lower is enough?
Enough to complete the whole coil playing 4h total?

No matter how much lower they go. Someone will want to be lower and the team gotta decide when to stop.
Each additional mode they add is resources thrown away that could have been spent on other things.

Each stuff they change gotta be developed and debugged, they have no dumbification lever to make it easier. You can see the salvage mode to understand how a fight can change.

They work with numbers, they know how many people haven't cleared second coil, they have enough data gathered from other content to know how to make an alternate fight that can be cleared by more people (not everyone, just more people) and having different difficulty levels is not something new to games.

[ZohnoReecho]

I really don't want to belittle your post, but your whole argument revolves around "it should remain special/exclusive" without giving any solid reason. What's the benefit of keeping raids locked to the hardcore? What's the drawback of creating a second difficulty that would not interfere with the hard mode, considering they would have different rewards? How does it help the community or the game to keep things like that?

competition, some people like it.

[Alukah]

competition, some people like it.

There's still competition, savage and hard coil modes would stay there, their challenge wouldn't be lowered, this is a separate mode that wouldn't affect any of those two.

[cryptic_angel]

I really don't want to belittle your post, but your whole argument revolves around "it should remain special/exclusive" without giving any solid reason. What's the benefit of keeping raids locked to the hardcore? What's the drawback of creating a second difficulty that would notinterfere with the hard mode, considering they would have different rewards? How does it help the community or the game to keep things like that?



They work with numbers, they know how many people haven't cleared second coil, they have enough data gathered from other content to know how to make an alternate fight that can be cleared by more people (not everyone, just more people) and having different difficulty levels is not something new to games.

I hate feeling like all the effort, time, and gil I put into clearing SCoB is only for S%$s and giggles. HA vanity gear is only a reward if you get any. Our raid static has never seen a HA caster body and we still only have seen half of the HA weapons that can drop.

If people really want an easy mode coil and for ff14 ARR to take up the WotLK raiding model, you all should be supporting an ilvl bump for SCoB gear.

That's what allowed the raiding model to work in WotLK was differentiated gear ilvls. At the end of the day, many raiders care about gear and that should be an incentive in tiered raiding difficulty.

I for one want to keep hard content rolling and for it to remain intact, for it to remain intact, you need something to give to those lesser skilled, a dedicated easy mode, regardless of how you feel about gear, will keep the content me and you do intact.

There is no reason to keep old hard content in this game intact. People don't go back and relish in the difficulty. Raiders move on to the new raid and non-raiders go obtain all the catch up gear. Keeping coil difficult past it's prime would serve no purpose in this game.

People can see SCoB when the nerfs come out.

[raelgun]

There is no reason to keep old hard content in this game intact. People don't go back and relish in the difficulty. Raiders more on to the new raid and non-raiders go obtain all the catch up gear. Keeping coil difficult past it's prime would serve no purpose in this game.

People can see SCoB when the nerfs come out.

I dont just refer to older content, Im also referring to future content, whats stopping SE from designing 3rd coil normal mode to be easier then 2nd coil ?
What happens currently can affect what occurs later, this is exactly what I want to avoid, dragonsoul was made damn easy as a result of the difficulty setting of the prior tiers, my raid group was annoyed by this on first week as we actually cleared all the bosses in the first week.
Due to those of lesser skill, their progression in the past tiers affected our raiding experience, if they had something just for themselves, that wouldnt of happened.
youre also forgetting about potential nerfs to current content, thats always in the minds of the devs in times like these.

[cryptic_angel]

I dont just refer to older content, Im also referring to future content, whats stopping SE from designing 3rd coil normal mode to be easier then 2nd coil ?What happens currently can affect what occurs later, this is exactly what I want to avoid, dragonsoul was made damn easy as a result of the difficulty setting of the prior tiers, my raid group was annoyed by this on first week as we actually cleared all the bosses in the first week.
Due to those of lesser skill, their progression in the past tiers affected our raiding experience, if they had something just for themselves, that wouldnt of happened.
youre also forgetting about potential nerfs to current content, thats always in the minds of the devs in times like these.

So far, SE has shown two things as it pertains to current raid content.

Outside of the twister nerf, SE does not nerf fights in the middle of their lifespan.

Difficulty in raids has increased from SCoB from the first BCoB. Why would you be afraid that the TCoB will be easier than the SCoB? There is no evidence to support such a notion yet.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if there was an item level difference between normal and hard mode other than the weapon, and I don't think many supporters would mind either, as long as there's a stepping stone into hard raiding and more mid content.



That is the terrible game design that should be avoided, not nerfing old content, but locking people from content until its outdated, an eternal "catch up" game that would be solved by tiered difficulty.

That is the style of MMO's the eternal "catch up" as you call it is just another form the the gear/content treadmill all players are subject to. Raiders tend to sprint on that treadmill where as more casual players tend to walk. Why does it matter when you see the content as long as you are seeing it before the next expansion?

[Alukah]

I hate feeling like all the effort, time, and gil I put into clearing SCoB is only for S%$s and giggles. HA vanity gear is only a reward if you get any. Our raid static has never seen a HA caster body and we still only have seen half of the HA weapons that can drop.

If people really want an easy mode coil and for ff14 ARR to take up the WotLK raiding model, you all should be supporting an ilvl bump for SCoB gear.

That's what allowed the raiding model to work in WotLK was differentiated gear ilvls. At the end of the day, many raiders care about gear and that should be an incentive in tiered raiding difficulty.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if there was an item level difference between normal and hard mode other than the weapon, and I don't think many supporters would mind either, as long as there's a stepping stone into hard raiding and more mid content.

People can see SCoB when the nerfs come out.

That is the terrible game design that should be avoided, not nerfing old content, but locking people from content until its outdated, an eternal "catch up" game that would be solved by tiered difficulty.