Abusing the Trade feature to interrupt, etc

[Argyle_Darkheart]

What i dont get is why people are AGAINST changing it so that trading no longer interrupts teleports? There is no possible legitimate reason you can give for this :/

I don't think anyone besides griefers would be against this. Nobody in this thread has voiced opposition to the idea, at least.

[Airal]

I agree, but that doesn't mean it's fair. My point is: why even elevate this issue to such a degree, when you can manage it yourself? Is that not preferable? Should players be so quick to cry for GMs?

I can see that more or less your argument is that people should fend for themselves instead of going home to cry for mommy whenever something doesn't go their way. I can respect wanting to not have to involve someone whenever you have a dispute. But the GMs are there to do a job and can't do anything about something that is not reported to them, serious or not. Part of their job is sifting through what is serious and what isn't. Their hope is that players can help to rout toxic behavior before it becomes a large-scale problem by informing GMs about it. No one's telling you that you personally have to go to a GM for every single issue, but that it should be an option for people who run into a legitimate conflict as a result of something like this or the intentional vote kick misuses (which are a totally different beast than this, I'll admit).

As long as you've gone through the proper steps against it then I don't see why informing a GM would be a problem at all.

[Bixby]

I agree, but that doesn't mean it's fair. My point is: why even elevate this issue to such a degree, when you can manage it yourself? Is that not preferable? Should players be so quick to cry for GMs?

I'll reiterate that extended harassment may require GM intercession.

That's what most companies ask you to do to begin with. Try asking them to stop, then try blacklisting them (or whatever), then report if it continues after that. Because if nothing else, if you exhaust your other options beforehand, it's a lot easier for a GM to tell that it's harassment, and makes it harder for the other party to appeal their decisions.

[whoopeeragon]

I agree, but that doesn't mean it's fair. My point is: why even elevate this issue to such a degree, when you can manage it yourself? Is that not preferable? Should players be so quick to cry for GMs?[/B]

The same could be said for resetting hunts. Look what happened.

In the end, harassment IS harassment. I don't mind playful harassment amongst friends (I've been guilty of that, by playing the game of "how low can the tank go". Sometimes I lose.) However, there's a level at which GM intervention will be brought into the issue if it escalates beyond just a pure annoyance.

I don't want to be playing a game where people maliciously harass and disrupt other people's gameplay. I don't want to have to put myself at an unwanted condition (/busy) just so I can have peace. We should be able to expect to play as the game dictates, not by the whims of human nature.

Of course, this is not by any means saying this is OFTEN. I've only seen a few cases of these, the most severe being the one I outlined before. I rarely see this issue, but unlike other forms of spammable harassment, this one escalates far up the annoyance meter.

In short, I will contact a GM in two scenarios:

1. The trade interruption causes a DEFINITIVE disruption of gameplay, noticeable via the loss of progression or harmful impact. This extends to causing a death of another player, or causing a player's duty to end or render the player unable to act according to their wishes amongst others.
2. The trade interruption persists beyond acceptable human patience levels. This involves tracking/following a player with the intent of repeatedly trading to disrupt their current activity for a certain time amongst other forms of harassment.

I would say the above two scenarios are fair reasons to contact a GM for disruptful harassment.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

The same could be said for resetting hunts. Look what happened.

Resetting hunts was a bigger issue, the way I see it. It affected all the players involved, and was much harder to deal with.

For trade-interrupts, /busy and /blist completely negate the issue. Of course, you can't always do this preemptively (and then the damage is likely already done), but you at least have definite ways to deal with it in-game.

I have no issue with anything else you wrote.

[Niamh_Rillemaugh]

I agree, but that doesn't mean it's fair. My point is: why even elevate this issue to such a degree, when you can manage it yourself? Is that not preferable? Should players be so quick to cry for GMs?

I'll reiterate that extended harassment may require GM intercession.

Because some people cannot or would rather not manage it themselves. If somebody thinks that their issue is valid enough they should contact a GM, by all means, they should contact a GM. It is the GM's job to decide whether or not it warrants action, but a player should never feel like their problems aren't important enough to be considered. That's an easy road to self-blame and actual abuse.

[RyuDragnier]

Eh, maybe not banned but GM jail (does xiv have a GM jail?) would be nice.

They do. Somebody I know got sent to it, and got to see a GM...they were in FFXII-ish Judge armor from what he said. It was like an inquisition when they started questioning him. Nobody expects the Eorzean Inquisition!

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Because some people cannot or would rather not manage it themselves.

I don't see how calling a GM is a better solution than blacklisting the player (unless you really think they deserve to be banned--maybe they do).
Granted, they may not be aware of the option. (Note: I'm talking specifically about trade-griefing).

If somebody thinks that their issue is valid enough they should contact a GM, by all means, they should contact a GM. It is the GM's job to decide whether or not it warrants action, but a player should never feel like their problems aren't important enough to be considered. That's an easy road to self-blame and actual abuse.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, I see your point, and it's valid. But, on the other hand, depending on GMs to solve your problems for you isn't necessarily healthy either. Not only that, it can be a terribly inefficient way of dealing with your current problem.

[Ghishlain]

I appreciate what you're saying, but, no, my main point has always been that people need to calm down and think before they consult a GM.

I do NOT trust GMs to mete out fair punishment. Whether they do or do not is beside the point, as far as I'm concerned; this issue just isn't big enough.

My thought process is as follows:

If this person is doing this to me, for no apparent reason whatsoever, he has probably done something similar to a variety of other players. He may feel he has gotten off scoot free because he's done this to perhaps HUNDREDS of people unknown to myself, and continues to do so because he hasn't gotten any slap on the wrist for his inappropriate behavior.

By bringing it the attention of the GMs, they can now sift through this player's history and see if this behaviorism has been replicated in other incidents, or perhaps add this to an already mounting portfolio of complaints against this individual. If I'm the only individual, then fine, at last this has now been noted. If I am one of many victims, that harassing player should give them a warning and if it continues, escalate beyond that.

Just because I can fix it for myself by putting on my /busy symbol doesn't mean I shouldn't take the necessary steps to potentially protect other innocent players from being griefed by this player (who may not know how to prevent this grief from happening).

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Just because I can fix it for myself by putting on my /busy symbol doesn't mean I shouldn't take the necessary steps to potentially protect other innocent players from being griefed by this player (who may not know how to prevent this grief from happening).

That's fine; you've clearly thought about it. But some people just call GM to sort out their emotions and/or to attempt to harm the other player (whether or not they deserve it).