Abusing the Trade feature to interrupt, etc

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Come back after people use the exploit to get you killed or fuck you up while doing something important.

I don't care for your sob stories, and I think you're inflating the issue.

Permanent suspension is a serious punishment, and should be reserved for only the most dire of issues.

[Verranicus]

I don't care for your sob stories, and I think you're inflating the issue.

Permanent suspension is a serious punishment, and it should not be dealt out lightly.

Trade troll spotted.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Trade troll spotted.

Sorry, but I'm not so immature as to think every slight deserves such an indignant response.

People need to chill out, take a deep breath, and think whether their offenders really deserve their outrage.

Yes, they're having a laugh at your expense. Do the GMs need to come in and sort your feelings out for you? I don't think so (for everyone's sake).

If the issue persists, of course, that's a different, more personal, level of harassment.

[Tupsi]

Sorry, but I'm not so immature as to think every slight deserves such an indignant response.

However punishing nothing at all sends the message it's ok to do. If they deal out Salvage like bans, people will straighten up quite nicely, even if it's for a short while.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

You'd feel diffirently if you're trying to get somewhere. A once-a-day mining node that's about to despawn that you would have made otherwise, or an A/S-rank hunt you could have reached if it wasnt for some jerkface who keeps following you around and trading you for his laughs.

No, I wouldn't. I would /busy or /blacklist the offender. I only report people if they're a persistent menace to other people, or if I have literally no other alternative.

I've had someone literally follow me around for 5 minutes locking me into place.

That sucks. That's persistent harassment, and warrants a reaction. Still, I would just /blacklist them and move on.

Why do you feel it's not acceptable to ban someone who is seriously griefing you and is trying to stop you from enjoying the game or getting things done? I certainly dont want those kinds of people or that sort of behavior around on this game. And if asking them doesnt stop it, maybe a ban will make them change their attitudes.

(Extended personal harassment is a different issue than what I was addressing, but I still think GM intervention should be a last resort.)

It sets a dangerous precedent, and I don't trust GMs to issue suspensions judiciously.
I don't think players should immediately turn to GM intervention, just as I don't think people, in real life, should immediately turn to the authorities.
I don't want some players' accounts terminated because some people can't contain their emotions.
Maybe someone deserves to be banned, maybe they don't. But that should not be decided so quickly.

However punishing nothing at all sends the message it's ok to do. If they deal out Salvage like bans, people will straighten up quite nicely, even if it's for a short while.

I don't want anyone to be banned undeservedly just to send a message to a few bad apples. That's disgusting.

[Tupsi]

I don't want anyone to be banned undeservedly just to send a message to a few bad apples. That's disgusting.

Ah, but if you're harassing someone you're not undeserving - You've broken ToS/EULA by harassing another player. It's more like:

Player: "Ah, think I'll log on and play some XIV."
SE: "Why hello there player, I see you're playing FFXIV today - BANNED!"

^ That is undeserving and simply "to send a message we will ban you."


Compared to:

Player: "Ah, think I'll trade spam people and people I think are bots, I know this counts as harassment but who cares!"
SE: "I see you're harassing people..carry on!"

^ Not punishing.

SE: "I see you're harassing people, you're breaking the terms by doing so as it is also a bannable offense, you will be temporarily suspended or permanently banned depending on prior infractions." This would be punishing someone for breaking the terms you agreed on. I get what you mean, but simply doing nothing at all means you're free to harass and bot and so on and nothing will befall you. Sometimes they need to send a message if they truly ever want to fix certain situations. As exampled with the Salvage Bans, people sure as heck thought twice about openly exploiting and cheating any flaws found in a content system SE released in XI, since entire linkshells were broken and/or banned. It may be seen as bad taste, but it could be worse, they could be scanning our computers constantly and ban us if they see any program interact with the client even if it's harmless.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Ah, but if you're harassing someone you're not undeserving - You've broken ToS/EULA by harassing another player.

My judgment isn't dictated by the ToS/EULA. Also, SE is far from infallible. No authority is immune to criticism.

I don't automatically think people deserved to be banned just because they broke the ToS/EULA. I prefer to think for myself.

EDIT: I don't think this "issue" is anywhere near the magnitude of cheating/exploiting through content, so the course of action you're referencing would be highly inappropriate for this situation (low-impact griefing).

[YmirEsc]

Just use /busy. At this point there's really no excuse not to. If you can't be bothered to recieve a trade that interrupts you or you're really in a rush then just switch yourself to busy and problem solved. Complaining about something that can be fixed is stupid honestly.

[Mogi]

If they can ban you on the forums for just being rude then i don't see why they can't do it in game as well. ppl who do this over and over to others maybe GMs can ban them for 1 or 2 weeks that not be the end of the world but at the same time i don't think they will come back doing it again

[Darki]

I never said it was ok. I said (in the post you quoted, no less) that people are inflating the issue.

To me, it seems there are two sides to this thread. The first by Mr. Argyle_Darkheart, who is taking a methodical and empathetic approach to the subject. Basically saying we shouldn't be so reactionary to trolls (which have been around since the internet was born.) Most likely the trade spammers (or whatever you want to call them,) are just stupid teenagers tiring to get a rise out of others.

The other side of this are the people with a "throw the bums in jail!" mentality. These people say it's the principle of the matter and that these trade spammers should be taught a lesson, but let's be honest here...these people just want to be vindictive. Most likely they were the target of a trade toll and just want to lash back. Why sink to that level? Anyone besides the trolls are bigger then the trolls (in more ways than one) and thus they are not worth anyone's time or attention.

If you own a car, you have to expect that some idiot might ram into you on the road and damage it. So you buy insurance. If you own a house, you have to expect that someone might break into it. So you get a security system. If you play FFXIV: ARR and your doing something important and sensitive out in the open, you have to expect trolls to grief you. So you put up /busy beforehand.

If SE was as ban-happy as the latter half of this topic is, there would be no subscribers and thus no game.

Remember this saying: "The more people fight fire with fire, the more the world burns."