SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Mcshiggs]

Well, it won't actually be first party. It will still be made by a third party, but will be an addon instead of an external program. But yeah, will still allow parsing even though it's "cheating" according to these people. Really kind of funny.

If the add on is ok'd by SE, then it will no longer be cheating, it is only cheating now because it is a third party tool and all third party tools are against ToS, so by definition cheating. I would say it's really kind of funny this hasn't sunk in for you yet, but in fact it's really just kind of sad.

[ispano]

If the add on is ok'd by SE, then it will no longer be cheating, it is only cheating now because it is a third party tool and all third party tools are against ToS, so by definition cheating. I would say it's really kind of funny this hasn't sunk in for you yet, but in fact it's really just kind of sad.

No, what's sad is you coupling something with something it's not. Third Party Programs being disallowed in the ToS does not make the act of parsing, cheating. You can argue, like I said earlier, til you're blue in the face and it still will not be true. People do this all the time. They want to "simplify" and classify many things under one term so they don't have to think about it, and you may not be doing that, but that's what's happening.

When you can show me how a parser bypasses game rules, keyword GAME rules, since that's what a cheat does, I MIGHT listen to you. Cheats always make something easier. Not all things that make something easier, are cheats. So, please, blue yourself in the face.

Lastly, assuming the addon is ok'd by SE, parsers we have now will still not be allowed, NOT because they are parsers or that parsers are cheating. Since they never were. They would be not allowed due to being third party programs.

Please realize the disconnect you're having, because I'm done trying to teach you.

If they ever allow an addon or implement an in game parser it will no longer be cheating because even though it would provide an advantage, it would no long be breaking a rule to do it.

No, i'll do one more. No, they would still be against the ToS. Only the one built for the addon API would be allowed. Parsing with something like XIVAPP or others like it, would still be classified under Third Party Programs and Disallowed. Again, nothing to do with the fact that it is a parser. But the fact it's a third party program. Everything you've posted even clearly STATES that, and you ignore it and try to use it for your own argument.

Read that one sentence you quoted from me very carefully, let all the words sink in, I said if they allow an add on or put one in game, it would no longer violate ToS, you are the one ignoring what people post. Not sure why you are bringing up the app, I never mentioned it there, I said the ones they ok would not violate ToS. You are either just so angry you can't prove your point you are ignoring what folks post and even imply stuff we never mention, or there is some disconnect between what you read and what you comprehend and retain.

And that's my post limit for the day, feels kind of wasted so many on this one subject because some folks can't read facts put before them, comprehend them, and accept that no matter how much they argue it has been clearly laid out by the devs.

Why am I bringing up the app, because THAT is what's against the rules. Not the act of parsing. That's what YOU don't comprehend. You try to bundle it all together like they're both the same, when they're not. Your words about the mod and it become non-cheating even proves it. Being against the ToS is only because it's a third party program. NOTHING else. You just choose to think so.

Read the bolded part from the lodestone, tools that parse data are against ToS, are you not seeing that? If you are so certain that you can parse and it's all ok, I will gladly make a character on your server, I will go to a target dummy and you can parse me and whisper me the results, I'll report it to a GM and we will see if the simple act of paring is ok or not.

Do we need to get an English Major in here? Because you're reading the meaning of that line incorrectly.

[Mcshiggs]

arguing with myself

There is a link on the first page, not sure if you didn't read it, didn't click, or just refuse to believe it because it makes parsing cheating.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...620.1397906412
We would also like to remind players that third-party tools that modify or parse game data violate the User Agreement, and that players who are found to be using these tools will be met with strict disciplinary action.

The act of parsing isn't cheating, the use a third party tool makes it cheating. Straight from the lodestone, any tools that modify or parse game data violate the User Agreement.
Now incase you didn't read the post I made earlier that gave the definition of cheating,

Definition of cheat: to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something

So there you have it, when you use a third party tool, you are breaking the User Agreement, a list of rules you agree to when you play this game.
The reason people parse is that it provides a benefit or advantage. By definition since using a third party tool to parse breaks a rule and you gain an advantage it is cheating. If they ever allow an addon or implement an in game parser it will no longer be cheating because even though it would provide an advantage, it would no long be breaking a rule to do it.
I have laid this out pretty much as simply as I can, and if anyone can't see it, then wow.

No, i'll do one more. No, they would still be against the ToS. Only the one built for the addon API would be allowed. Parsing with something like XIVAPP or others like it, would still be classified under Third Party Programs and Disallowed. Again, nothing to do with the fact that it is a parser. But the fact it's a third party program. Everything you've posted even clearly STATES that, and you ignore it and try to use it for your own argument.

Read that one sentence you quoted from me very carefully, let all the words sink in, I said if they allow an add on or put one in game, it would no longer violate ToS, you are the one ignoring what people post. Not sure why you are bringing up the app, I never mentioned it there, I said the ones they ok would not violate ToS. You are either just so angry you can't prove your point you are ignoring what folks post and even imply stuff we never mention, or there is some disconnect between what you read and what you comprehend and retain. As for what you say about what I post states that it is against the rules because it is a third party program is exactly what I am attempting to get across. As long as it is against the User Agreement it is breaking the rules. If you don't want to call it cheating ok, most cheaters don't like being told they are cheating, that's on the folks breaking the rules not me, but by definition the fact that using a third party tool to parse is technically cheating right now. If they change it in the future, by adding addons or what ever, that is the future, currently it's no ok'd. If you would read that lodestone post they do single out programs that parse data specifically.

Why am I bringing up the app, because THAT is what's against the rules. Not the act of parsing. That's what YOU don't comprehend. You try to bundle it all together like they're both the same, when they're not. Your words about the mod and it become non-cheating even proves it. Being against the ToS is only because it's a third party program. NOTHING else. You just choose to think so.

Read the bolded part from the lodestone, tools that parse data are against ToS, are you not seeing that? If you are so certain that you can parse and it's all ok, I will gladly make a character on your server, I will go to a target dummy and you can parse me and whisper me the results, I'll report it to a GM and we will see if the simple act of paring is ok or not.

And that's my post limit for the day, feels kind of wasted so many on this one subject because some folks can't read facts put before them, comprehend them, and accept that no matter how much they argue it has been clearly laid out by the devs.

[Exstal]

third-party tools that modify or parse game data

The rest of your post was irrelevant.

Parsing can be done by hand.
Parsing is *not* cheating.

There really isn't any counter argument to this.

The only argument you have is that, "using third party tools is cheating". That would be correct. There is no refutation of that. But since you're saying "parsing is cheating", you're dead wrong and it's rather impressive that you've either brilliantly ignored it or simply chose not to understand this simple fact.

[Mcshiggs]

The only argument you have is that, "using third party tools is cheating". That would be correct. There is no refutation of that. But since you're saying "parsing is cheating", you're dead wrong and it's rather impressive that you've either brilliantly ignored it or simply chose not to understand this simple fact.

Since everything I have posted has been about the use of third party programs, and that fact is what makes them cheating you can use context clues that I was never talking about pen and paper parsing. This entire thread was about SE stating that using parsers was against the User Agreement, again nothing about pen and paper parsing, the only reason pen and paper parsing was brought up was someone said that parsers were ok because they didn't allow you to do something you couldn't do already, but the link in the original post says specifically parsers are a violation. I'm not sure if I ever said outright "parsing is cheating," like you claim I have, I know you might be able to cherry pick something out of a post, but they are all about third party tools, I have said many many times that the fact that third party tools is what makes them cheating, so if you are using those to parse, then yes you are cheating. If you want to say it's not cheating by definition because they don't provide an advantage you couldn't come to yourself, then why use them, because you gain the advantage of time saved and not having to do the work yourself, still an advantage, so still cheating if you use the programs to do it.

[Exstal]

If you want to say it's not cheating by definition because they don't provide an advantage you couldn't come to yourself, then why use them, because you gain the advantage of time saved and not having to do the work yourself, still an advantage, so still cheating if you use the programs to do it.

As such, you've been arguing semantics for the past 12 pages with the other people. Parsing as a blanket statement, going through data and looking at damage and checking, is not cheating. Using a third-party program to do so, is. However, the community usually couldn't care less about that because the benefit of it (the parser) is high and fight club rules pretty much protect you from being banned.

[Mcshiggs]

the community usually couldn't care less about that because the benefit of it (the parser) is high and fight club rules pretty much protect you from being banned.

Some people choose to follow the rules, some choose to cheat because they are pretty sure nothing will happen to them, that's a personal thing there, I choose not to use parsers, because at this point using one is cheating. I'm guessing you couldn't find anything I said about a blanket statement of parsing being cheating, because everything I said was about third party programs, so you try to slyly slip into another post implying I think the act of parsing is cheating, when anyone could read my posts and see I believe the act of using a program to parse is cheating. Good try though.

[Tashigi]

If the add on is ok'd by SE, then it will no longer be cheating, it is only cheating now because it is a third party tool and all third party tools are against ToS, so by definition cheating. I would say it's really kind of funny this hasn't sunk in for you yet, but in fact it's really just kind of sad.

to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game

You can parse without the parser. If you normally couldn't, then it would be found against TOS. Though, that's questionable, given that a parser doesn't play the game for you. It simply supplies you with information that would otherwise be slightly more difficult to obtain.

The fact that the parser in question is found within a third party utility, is what makes it against TOS; so you're correct in saying that. But I still giggle at the thought of it being "cheating" to parse; since you can do it even without this third party tool (Just open the combat log under your saved files and have at it).

This is the glaring difference that a lot of you are not understanding.
The act of parsing could never be against TOS or be considered cheating, because it's more than doable by anyone, without any addon/third party tool/etc.
When addons become available, it'll simply make it easier/more convenient.

The current parsers are against TOS; because of how they currently function.
This thread was a joke since the first post; everyone with a head on their shoulders knew SE stance on this. But also knew that parsing is more than commonplace in this genre of games. Even SE supports the idea; they wouldn't give you access to so much combat info in the first place if they didn't. (Again, open your combat log in whatever folder you keep it and see for yourself).

[kidvideo]

(Again, open your combat log in whatever folder you keep it and see for yourself).

I took apart my PS4 & could not find it.