SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Kaethra]

So you're telling me that elementary and common sense isn't a thing because parsers?

It doesn't take a rocket science to figure out what these things do. Stats and attributes have been a thing since DnD and rotations have existed long before FFXIV. Sure some people will be new to the concept. I honestly don't see what point you trying to make outside of it being a quality of life tool because that's all it is at it's most minimum usage. On its day to day use it's nothing more than an unhealthy tool used for harassment or competitive annoyance.

Without looking it up, please elaborate how much INT is equal to 10 DET?

Again you're bluffing. When you get those three threads locked, I'll recant my statements and agree that Parsers shouldn't be used. Deal?

[Sebazy]

On its day to day use it's nothing more than an unhealthy tool used for harassment or competitive annoyance.

It's no different to how a cyclist or runner would use Strava. I would wager that a lot more people parse than you realise, you just don't realise it because believe it or not, they are not interested in forcing those numbers down your throat. They are purely interested in self improvement. People taking that data and using it as ammo to be abusive towards other players are the minority and deserve every report they get against them.

[Shougun]

Not a main point but just a funny side note to a decent point on why a parser is useful (hard hard content). Perhaps the parser is ruining the difficulty curve SE uses, because more information is known. Better information leads to better play leads to SE making content harder to make it "feel" hard.

Funny to consider that the argument for the parser is what leads to needing the parser. Like in WoW where raid alert or whatever that mod's name is caused blizzard to have to make harder contents. I don't think it's 100% cyclical cause and effect, so carry on the fight.. But I think it could have an effect on non-parser players as stated above.

Recap: (Content made harder due to players doing better due to having more information- parser made the game harder for non-parsing players). It's just a fun theory, would be hard to prove without dev feedback, but I imagine they do use player success/failures to design next fights. ;D

[Velox]

Savage coil isn't possible without the use of a parser to get everyone to the performance level the content requires. The vast majority of T9 clears will have either run a parser themselves or used strategies that were devised off the back of parser data even if they don't quite know it.

Actually, yes it is or SE wouldn't have designed it. You must remember that all content that goes into this game is designed around all platforms offered to the playerbase. Every little bit of content in this game can be completed by a full party of ps3 players (which would innately lack any parsing ability).Of course, they would have to work harder to overcome hardware limitations, but SE wouldn't have designed a fight a specific way unless it was possible to complete within some reasonable percentage. People here may not like this, but for the most part "parsers" are a mere crutch that lesser-skilled players (not just in FFXIV but in many MMOs) have become so dependent upon that they have become the "norm" in gaming society. This was to be expected though from a purely psychological standpoint. After all, the same principle applies to raising children. The more you spoil them, the more they demand later and the more they complains when things don't go their way. Gamers have been spoiled by parsers giving them the easy way out, and know nothing now but how to demand for them to be integrated into every game. The minute you design a game that doesn't warrant their use, people flip their shit because you've moved "outside the established norm." Hell, I remember 13-14 years ago parsers were unheard of, and we fought and defeated difficult enemies by brain-power alone.

[Kaethra]

Recap: (Content made harder due to players doing better due to having more information- parser made the game harder for non-parsing players). It's just a fun theory, would be hard to prove without dev feedback, but I imagine they do use player success/failures to design next fights. ;D

In WoW the addon you're talking about was Deadly Boss Mobs, and if I'm not mistaken it did cause the devs some issues there. But prior to that people were using Ventrilo and a Stopwatch for boss effects. Personally I don't think bosses should be using effects on timers or hp%'s. That throws off such strategies and introduces skill based solutions rather than scripting. But thats just my 2 cents on that.

[SongJoohee]

Actually, yes it is or SE wouldn't have designed it. You must remember that all content that goes into this game is designed around all platforms offered to the playerbase. Every little bit of content in this game can be completed by a full party of ps3 players (which would innately lack any parsing ability).Of course, they would have to work harder to overcome hardware limitations, but SE wouldn't have designed a fight a specific way unless it was possible to complete within some reasonable percentage..

Yoshida straight up said when they announced savage coil that they don't even know if it's possible to be beaten in current gear. Lucrezia proved them wrong, but I'd love to see a full party of PS3 - using only PS3 tools (no voice chat) beat savage 6-9.

[Gormogon]

I still stand by my verdict that SMN is nigh impossible to truly optimise without a parser, contagion vs ifrit's extra damage, is shadow flare useful? Should I ever bother with Miasma II? Due to how dot damage is displayed in such an overly simplistic manner in game, it is only possible to find out these kind of answers through the direct or indirect use of parsers. In short, not all rotations are self explanatory.

So you're saying that when it comes to SMN you're part of the, "it's new to me" crowd? Which doesn't surprise me.

Half of the things you question is something you see and notice leveling and if you didn't that's pretty hilarious to me. I can go on but there's no point since I already explained why you're trying to make this a thing.

And just to reiterate, sorry but you are wrong, there's just no way to sugar coat it. Savage coil isn't possible without the use of a parser to get everyone to the performance level the content requires. The vast majority of T9 clears will have either run a parser themselves or used strategies that were devised off the back of parser data even if they don't quite know it.

This is the saddest thing about parser enthusiasts you neglect something so simple just to make it sound like it's some massive complicated system that can't be figured out without help. Fights are mechanic oriented which is the reason why all guides revolve around explaining abilities and rotations over YOU NEED 400 DPS ON EVERY BODY AND 350 HEALS PER HEALER.

And I think you are overblowing the risks of that actually happening, it's been demonstrated repeatedly that SE take inter player abuse very seriously, far more so than is usually the case in an mmo. As long as that continued to be the case then you need not worry. I'd be more concerned about the inevitable rise of the '400DEEPS OR KICK - Garuda EX' party finders myself

Sorry but the end game environment has changed a lot since 2.0 and the offenders are end game difficult increases mixed with the type of environment parsers create. I've put up with it so much that it has gotten to the point that I'm willing to avoid end game raiding because of it now. I tolerated that bs for well near a decade and it has never changed and all meter enthusiasts don't ever bother to make the end game environment any better.

Not a main point but just a funny side note to a decent point on why a parser is useful (hard hard content). Perhaps the parser is ruining the difficulty curve SE uses

That's the kind of mentality that really irks me.

Those players downing savage coil are actually putting effort. If you actually take the time to realize that they put in hours upon hours every day doing savage coil. They put that time checking and testing mechanics that need to be tackled. It's the reason why it's possible to be downed.

We weren't told what kind of gear the dev team used, the type of raiding hours they put in, and so on.

Yet you go and overshadow all that hard work people doing savage coil by mentioning "parsers". It's pretty sad from my pov that you would do that.

[Yurai]

I'm not here to debate as I agree with both sides (parsers are definitely useful, but they're also clearly against the rules). I just had to comment that the thread starter's name is from one of the best books ever - Use of Weapons. Everyone go read it!

[Buff_Archer]

If SE could at least give players a way to see their own DPS numbers (like at a special training dummy) this would be of benefit to everyone who wished to maximize how effective their rotations are. I know I'm far from the first to suggest it, but there's been no explicable indication why SE won't give us something like this to help put those of us on PS4/3 on equal footing with PC players from the standpoint of being able to know how personally effective we are. When I started out I read all sorts of guides to be as effective as possible, much to my detriment it turned out as I was using those godawful DPS-killing bard macros recommended all over the place that use don't interweave GCD vs off GCD skills and add needless wait time all over the place. It made my DPS mediocre at end game, and the only advice I got was stuff I was already doing and I couldn't figure out why when others added 1+1 they got 2, and when I did I got 1.5, metaphorically speaking and it was frustrating as hell. Someone (to whom I'll always be grateful but will forever go unnamed) spent a good 45 min to an hour working on my rotation with me at training dummies in Gridania, and a lot of it came down to reeducation and me unlearning an approach I'd been conditioned to follow since I started and learning a brand new one. But without access to info re: DPS we wouldn't have known whether that made much of a difference or not. In fact, my DPS increased 30% when comparing the numbers from me going at the training dummies a few min under the old rotation, and doing it again after improvements were made. That's kind of a big deal. Sure, I mentioned at the start was that SE should at least let us see our own numbers, and then my example is from someone else helping me- but until then I had no way to gauge these numbers myself, and players willing to invest that much effort into helping others are not that easy to come by (and they can't help everybody). An in game DPS meter wouldn't have told me how to be more effective in the same sense as this other player, but being able to benchmark myself earlier on would have been nice.

And now that I think of it, why do we even have training dummies but no in game DPS meter, that's like having a car with no speedometer.

[Gormogon]

And now that I think of it, why do we even have training dummies but no in game DPS meter, that's like having a car with no speedometer.

You can actually see the kind of damage your auto-attacks, dots, and abilities do w/o buffs. You can numbers crunch from there.