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  1. #1
    Player
    ElHeggunte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    The Nation of Domination
    Posts
    1,466
    Character
    Naiyah Nanaya
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Elven View Post
    @Tiggy if it cannot be captured/processed by the player in real time as they're playing the game, it most certainly is an advantage no matter how you try to rationalize it.
    Quote Originally Posted by MeiUshu View Post
    Thank you Tiggy, that is exactly the point I have been making...-snip-
    The two of you are giving me a rash. These are such poor arguments against parsers that I'm having a hard time thinking of words to accurately describe how ridiculous you sound.
    (2)
    With this character's death, the thread of prophecy remains intact.

  2. #2
    Player
    Elven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    303
    Character
    Arwyn Elven
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ElHeggunte View Post
    The two of you are giving me a rash. These are such poor arguments against parsers that I'm having a hard time thinking of words to accurately describe how ridiculous you sound.
    You haven't said anything that doesn't indicate this doesn't give any advantage of course you feel overwhelmed.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Parawill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Lavender Beds
    Posts
    366
    Character
    Spark Joy
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by MeiUshu View Post
    You want a parser as a convenient tool in order for you to reach the end-content asap without putting forth some work, work that you want the others to put forth but not you. That is EXACTLY the reason why parsers should be banned, people need to work and learn and reading a log IS a learning curve...or you are telling me that the game doesnt require learning ?
    There is a difference between mundane, tedious and simply pointless work vs. learning. Parsers are tools for convenience. Convenience is never a bad thing. That's why we have calculators, forks, spoons, knives, toilet paper (not banana leaves), shoes, clothes, water bottles, telecommunications, internet, computers... and the list goes on.

    Why don't you learn the benefits from parsing than the negatives of it? This "parser" debate is very similar to gun laws. Just cause people have access to it doesn't mean you have everyone pew-pewing the living hell out of everyone. So same goes with parsers. Just because they have parsers doesn't mean you're going to be thrown into boiling water and shamed for having horrid DPS.

    *Shrug*
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player Tiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,645
    Character
    Tiggy Te'al
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 53
    Quote Originally Posted by MeiUshu View Post
    Snip

    Mei
    You completely missed the point and read that in a way that was unintended. Twisting my words doesn't help your case. You're completely insane if you think people are loosing out on some skill when it comes to reading that incredibly difficult to read log. It's only useful when it comes to knowing what exactly killed someone and for how much damage. Otherwise it's useless. You aren't going to skim it and have an idea of how much damage a player is doing at all. It's not humanly possible to do that.

    As for Elven and your posts. I disagree with you whole heartedly. You have made zero attempts to understand this from the position others are trying to discuss it from. The only leg you have to stand on is "it's not in the game so it's bad" and that completely ignores the entire discussion about the pros and cons. If that's really your point then say it and walk away. We got it. Coming back every other post to reinforce that extremely simple position isn't doing anything helpful.

    Many of us here have acknowledge that third party tools like this exist and nothing you say or anyone says here will ever change that simple fact. In addition to that fact is that many people do not use those tools. This creates a blatantly uneven playing field that leaves ps3/ps4 users the most out of luck. This situation is bad and needs to be remedied. An official in game solution of some kind (I'm not saying full on parser here btw) would go a long way to evening that playing field. This is a problem that needs addressed, and simply having SE say it's against the ToS is not enough to fix it.
    (0)
    Last edited by Tiggy; 08-12-2014 at 01:05 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    ElHeggunte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    The Nation of Domination
    Posts
    1,466
    Character
    Naiyah Nanaya
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggy View Post
    Might have something to do with the fact I'm not arguing against parsers.
    I know, I agree with everything you've said. I was addressing Elven and MeiUshu.
    (1)
    With this character's death, the thread of prophecy remains intact.

  6. #6
    Player MeiUshu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,262
    Character
    Sophia Sormanu
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggy View Post
    You completely missed the point and read that in a way that was unintended. Twisting my words doesn't help your case. You're completely insane if you think people are loosing out on some skill when it comes to reading that incredibly difficult to read log. It's only useful when it comes to knowing what exactly killed someone and for how much damage. Otherwise it's useless. You aren't going to skim it and have an idea of how much damage a player is doing at all. It's not humanly possible to do that.

    As for Elven and your posts. I disagree with you whole heartedly. You have made zero attempts to understand this from the position others are trying to discuss it from. The only leg you have to stand on is "it's not in the game so it's bad" and that completely ignores the entire discussion about the pros and cons. If that's really your point then say it and walk away. We got it. Coming back every other post to reinforce that extremely simple position isn't doing anything helpful.

    Many of us here have acknowledge that third party tools like this exist and nothing you say or anyone says here will ever change that simple fact. In addition to that fact is that many people do not use those tools. This creates a blatantly uneven playing field that leaves ps3/ps4 users the most out of luck. This situation is bad and needs to be remedied. An official in game solution of some kind (I'm not saying full on parser here btw) would go a long way to evening that playing field. This is a problem that needs addressed, and simply having SE say it's against the ToS is not enough to fix it.

    I didnt twistd AT ALL your words, I offered a way to use in-game features to allow you to better yourself.....you are the one that said, in a nutshell, that parsers give you all you require and allows you to pinpoint who is good or bad, this doesnt require an effort from you which rightly so prompted my answer that you want all easy handed over to you. All I said is, learn to read a log, hard as it is, learn to INTERPRETE a log analyze your logs, to understand whre the real problem is, it requires WORK from you, visibly you are interested in it but only to reach the end of the game as fast as possible which is alos what I said.. where I twisted your words is beyond me...but if you say so must be true right ? same as you saying is perfectly ok to use a parser to diminish, insult demean and shame others because of their low performance, maybe is the new generation of gamers. As I have said also, technically I am not against it, but this tool isnt usef the way it should be, which is why it shouldnt be allowed and people sanctionned isnt a bad thing.

    You know, you dont have to agree with me, is perfectly fine with me, so far though you put up blinders so that you only see what good it can bring, but alas, the parsers DONT bring any good at all..it brings out of people the bad. I also am not too sure I like the idea of someone reading my *logs* so to speak on my computer...but that is another story.

    It remains, parsers users want all easy, want perfection and everything right there and then they dont *analyze* who they have in their group, they dont take into consideration everything they only look at numbers...and like in a bookkeeping numbers without interpretation are just dead numbers.

    Just me though

    Mei (out of this discussion that brings nowhere)
    (2)
    Last edited by MeiUshu; 08-12-2014 at 07:20 PM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Souljacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,220
    Character
    Last Hero
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggy View Post
    Oh please act like those are easy to look through.
    I think that what he was trying to express is "why" do we have battle logs? It doesn't make sense that SE would allow battle logs to exist, but NOT allow us a meaningful way to aggregate and analyze the data. The stances are contradictory and the simple solution is to just remove this data completely from the client.

    SE is going to have to catch up with the rest of the modern world on this one, period. I know that there's a lot of folks in this thread who think that somehow parsers "ruin" the game - but I'll tell you what truly ruins the game: playing with other people who don't give a hoot whether they are pulling their weight because somehow actually performing the job they queued as ruins their immersion, and wipe after wipe because of it.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    Elven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    303
    Character
    Arwyn Elven
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Souljacker View Post
    I think that what he was trying to express is "why" do we have battle logs? It doesn't make sense that SE would allow battle logs to exist, but NOT allow us a meaningful way to aggregate and analyze the data. The stances are contradictory and the simple solution is to just remove this data completely from the client.

    SE is going to have to catch up with the rest of the modern world on this one, period. I know that there's a lot of folks in this thread who think that somehow parsers "ruin" the game - but I'll tell you what truly ruins the game: playing with other people who don't give a hoot whether they are pulling their weight because somehow actually performing the job they queued as ruins their immersion, and wipe after wipe because of it.
    Because it breaks down raw data in such a way as to offer an unfair advantage like the radar giving you a 360 view without having to look in that direction.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player
    Souljacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,220
    Character
    Last Hero
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Elven View Post
    Because it breaks down raw data in such a way as to offer an unfair advantage like the radar giving you a 360 view without having to look in that direction.
    I don't think you understand the difference between aggregating data and cheating. Knowing that 2+2 in my log = 4 doesn't amount to cheating, and having a computer do that computation for me isn't, either. It makes me a human being who might take longer to put that figure together, but it doesn't make me a cheater.

    This doesn't give me an advantage over another player as a radar app would. Having a computer calculate my 2+2 just means I arrive at an answer faster, not that I take a claim from another person that is legitimately hunting by running around the map. the two examples are so far apart on the spectrum I have to believe you are just trolling. No one can be this thick.
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player
    Elven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    303
    Character
    Arwyn Elven
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 90
    @Tiggy if it cannot be captured/processed by the player in real time as they're playing the game, it most certainly is an advantage no matter how you try to rationalize it.
    (0)

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