SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Krr]

So with this thread at 29 pages I have to ask, and sort of reiterate...

You all who're excited to see the death of those elitist DPS-checkers know that this 'definitive statement' on parsers has been the case for over eight months now, right?

It's not news that it's against TOS, and it was being banned for a long time before the week this thread was made. A long time.

[Kaethra]

So with this thread at 29 pages I have to ask, and sort of reiterate...

You all who're excited to see the death of those elitist DPS-checkers know that this 'definitive statement' on parsers has been the case for over eight months now, right?

It's not news that it's against TOS, and it was being banned for a long time before the week this thread was made. A long time.

Did you report the DPS parsing threads I linked? If you didn't/don't then it means you don't even believe what you just said.

Here, I'll relink them for you:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...otation-Reborn
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Temple-Reborn
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...age-Calculator

Go for it. Report them. Show us the good fight against DPS parsers. Fire the first shot if you dare. Again, I'm calling everyone's bluff.

[Gormogon]

You all who're excited to see the death of those elitist DPS-checkers

This is a thread. A discussion is in place. Throwing a silly report tantrum doesn't solve the issue and it never will a new thread will just be made.

The only thing that amazes me is that no pro parser person can ever explain why it isn't anything else outside a quality of life thing. All that it ever bring is claims that it is good but never why. Since in a static someone's gonna know when someone is under performing easily. A skill tank can see when another tank is doing something wrong because he tanks. A skilled healer will realize when another healer under performs. Dps will notice the lack of someone else's dps.

You can solo queue for Syrcus Tower and literally see all the bad that happens within moments.

[Kaethra]

The only thing that amazes me is that no pro parser person can ever explain why it isn't anything else outside a quality of life thing. All that it ever bring is claims that it is good but never why.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...otation-Reborn
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Temple-Reborn
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...age-Calculator

Read those threads. Parses allowed them to exist. Parses allowed them to see the benefit of Attributes vs Determination and other stats. If anyone wishes to see the downfall of parsers, threads like those should be their first target.

I'm seriously making this easy for anyone who is anti-parsing to see the end of Parsers if they are actually in the right. But the funny thing is they either lack the conviction or lack the confidence in their own argument to see it through. Again.. bluffing.

[Gormogon]

Read those threads. Parses allowed them to exist. Parses allowed them to see the benefit of Attributes vs Determination and other stats. If anyone wishes to see the downfall of parsers, threads like those should be their first target.

So you're telling me that elementary and common sense isn't a thing because parsers?

It doesn't take a rocket science to figure out what these things do. Stats and attributes have been a thing since DnD and rotations have existed long before FFXIV. Sure some people will be new to the concept. I honestly don't see what point you trying to make outside of it being a quality of life tool because that's all it is at it's most minimum usage. On its day to day use it's nothing more than an unhealthy tool used for harassment or competitive annoyance.

[Kaethra]

So you're telling me that elementary and common sense isn't a thing because parsers?

It doesn't take a rocket science to figure out what these things do. Stats and attributes have been a thing since DnD and rotations have existed long before FFXIV. Sure some people will be new to the concept. I honestly don't see what point you trying to make outside of it being a quality of life tool because that's all it is at it's most minimum usage. On its day to day use it's nothing more than an unhealthy tool used for harassment or competitive annoyance.

Without looking it up, please elaborate how much INT is equal to 10 DET?

Again you're bluffing. When you get those three threads locked, I'll recant my statements and agree that Parsers shouldn't be used. Deal?

[Gormogon]

I still stand by my verdict that SMN is nigh impossible to truly optimise without a parser, contagion vs ifrit's extra damage, is shadow flare useful? Should I ever bother with Miasma II? Due to how dot damage is displayed in such an overly simplistic manner in game, it is only possible to find out these kind of answers through the direct or indirect use of parsers. In short, not all rotations are self explanatory.

So you're saying that when it comes to SMN you're part of the, "it's new to me" crowd? Which doesn't surprise me.

Half of the things you question is something you see and notice leveling and if you didn't that's pretty hilarious to me. I can go on but there's no point since I already explained why you're trying to make this a thing.

And just to reiterate, sorry but you are wrong, there's just no way to sugar coat it. Savage coil isn't possible without the use of a parser to get everyone to the performance level the content requires. The vast majority of T9 clears will have either run a parser themselves or used strategies that were devised off the back of parser data even if they don't quite know it.

This is the saddest thing about parser enthusiasts you neglect something so simple just to make it sound like it's some massive complicated system that can't be figured out without help. Fights are mechanic oriented which is the reason why all guides revolve around explaining abilities and rotations over YOU NEED 400 DPS ON EVERY BODY AND 350 HEALS PER HEALER.

And I think you are overblowing the risks of that actually happening, it's been demonstrated repeatedly that SE take inter player abuse very seriously, far more so than is usually the case in an mmo. As long as that continued to be the case then you need not worry. I'd be more concerned about the inevitable rise of the '400DEEPS OR KICK - Garuda EX' party finders myself

Sorry but the end game environment has changed a lot since 2.0 and the offenders are end game difficult increases mixed with the type of environment parsers create. I've put up with it so much that it has gotten to the point that I'm willing to avoid end game raiding because of it now. I tolerated that bs for well near a decade and it has never changed and all meter enthusiasts don't ever bother to make the end game environment any better.

Not a main point but just a funny side note to a decent point on why a parser is useful (hard hard content). Perhaps the parser is ruining the difficulty curve SE uses

That's the kind of mentality that really irks me.

Those players downing savage coil are actually putting effort. If you actually take the time to realize that they put in hours upon hours every day doing savage coil. They put that time checking and testing mechanics that need to be tackled. It's the reason why it's possible to be downed.

We weren't told what kind of gear the dev team used, the type of raiding hours they put in, and so on.

Yet you go and overshadow all that hard work people doing savage coil by mentioning "parsers". It's pretty sad from my pov that you would do that.

[Shougun]

That's the kind of mentality that really irks me.

Those players downing savage coil are actually putting effort. If you actually take the time to realize that they put in hours upon hours every day doing savage coil. They put that time checking and testing mechanics that need to be tackled. It's the reason why it's possible to be downed.

We weren't told what kind of gear the dev team used, the type of raiding hours they put in, and so on.

Yet you go and overshadow all that hard work people doing savage coil by mentioning "parsers". It's pretty sad from my pov that you would do that.

Hmmm? I'm confused on how I overshadowed their work. I merely used the pro of using parser as a con for non-parsing players. If you are playing better Yoshida and team will need to make content harder in order for it to be hard- I did not say its easy, or easy mode or anything of the like. Players playing better, requires harder content to be challenging, at no point did I undermine someone's work (or at least attempted to.. lol).

I was just tossing the idea that parsers create a game that needs parsers, as once the players master what would normally be unbeknownst to them then the devs need to design with this in mind- or content won't be hard enough. As this own thread touts, parsers can help you and your team play better- which then follows that devs would need to balance it from there.

[Sebazy]

Half of the things you question is something you see and notice leveling and if you didn't that's pretty hilarious to me. I can go on but there's no point since I already explained why you're trying to make this a thing.

If you need parsers to know a rotation then I really feel sorry for you.

I disagree, summoners can easily go from 30 to 50 with only Miasma, Bio, Bio 2, fester and a pet. 99% of the content before coil simply melts too quickly to need anything beyond that, whilst the fraction of content that does have enough HP to stand up for more than a few minutes simply requires that you stay alive for the ride. Note that dots do not show up in the combat log, also keep in mind that all single target dot damage is compressed into a single flying text element, there is no way of telling if a particular dot tick critted. Due to the lack of precise timing with dot ticks it's also borderline impossible to weigh up the merits of more subtle elements of SMN play, 'should I be using shadow flare on a single target or should I only use it with swift cast', 'is Miasma II worth it's GCD?', 'Does contagion make it worthwhile?'. These seemingly minor details have a huge impact on a SMNs potency and they are not things you will learn whilst levelling.

Fights are mechanic oriented which is the reason why all guides revolve around explaining abilities and rotations over YOU NEED 400 DPS ON EVERY BODY AND 350 HEALS PER HEALER.

Again, I disagree, Turn 8 is a timed DPS race with dance dance revolution elements mixed in for good measure. Whilst as far as Turn 9 goes, the first phase rewards ever stronger DPS, phases 2 and 3 will effectively wipe you if you don't kill the adds before the mechanics progress on, whilst phase 4 is strictly timed with a hard enrage that will test a group still in the process of gearing up. Savage coil dials everything up to 11, it honestly makes Turn 5 look like Tam-Tara.

Sorry but the end game environment has changed a lot since 2.0 and the offenders are end game difficult increases mixed with the type of environment parsers create. I've put up with it so much that it has gotten to the point that I'm willing to avoid end game raiding because of it now. I tolerated that bs for well near a decade and it has never changed and all meter enthusiasts don't ever bother to make the end game environment any better.

I suspect the problem isn't parsers in general, but rather the people you played with.

Those players downing savage coil are actually putting effort. If you actually take the time to realize that they put in hours upon hours every day doing savage coil. They put that time checking and testing mechanics that need to be tackled. It's the reason why it's possible to be downed.

And part of the process of checking and testing mechanics in Savage Coil is digging through parser output to understand what they need to be achieving to clear the content.

Yet you go and overshadow all that hard work people doing savage coil by mentioning "parsers". It's pretty sad from my pov that you would do that.

A) I would wager that every single party making serious progression (as in managing to push a turn to at least phase 2) in savage coil will have at least one parser, the majority will have everyone parsing quite honestly. And for the PS4 players? They will be using parser info from someone else in the group. This isn't me speculating. This is the cold hard truth, I can only apologise if it hurts you.

B) If you think using a parser 'trivialises' the time, effort and sheer willpower that goes into committing a serious amount of time to clearing a Savage Coil turn, you are rather mistaken.

Ps, don't take the discussion and differences in opinion too much to heart, lets keep this as an enjoyable debate please?

[Sebazy]

On its day to day use it's nothing more than an unhealthy tool used for harassment or competitive annoyance.

It's no different to how a cyclist or runner would use Strava. I would wager that a lot more people parse than you realise, you just don't realise it because believe it or not, they are not interested in forcing those numbers down your throat. They are purely interested in self improvement. People taking that data and using it as ammo to be abusive towards other players are the minority and deserve every report they get against them.