So resetting's against the rules now?

[JTribal]

your team or LS seems to be full of greedy folks expecting you to break the rules so they can benefit from it.


I use the term "douchebag" because the only other word that could even come close would be calling them a tool, but a tool implies it has some sort of use, and I have no use for these type of people, so I go with douchebag.

tl;dr

LS Master here. I don't promote resetting and have stated this multiple times in our LS. Unfortunately, there is not an LS bulletin and I cannot always get a message or communication out to the entire LS. Caex was kind enough to let me know about the issue afterwards and I was able to clarify what the LS views on resetting are. Shame on you for calling 127 other people that you have never met douchebags. Also, not everyone has all day to sit on the forums and troll, so I'm not sure why you would put someone down for having not seen a thread about this topic earlier.

[Alukah]

The idea of people helping eachother and waiting on a mob and even resetting it so more people can gain access to the fun and endgame stuff is far more reasonable and noble than this pull early its your mob go for it mentality thats promoted here.
I'm not saying you should wait 5 minutes on a mob but if you know people are running there is no need to be selfish give it another 30 seconds someone else might do the same for you another day.

Go read the whole thread, that has been argued two or three times now.

[Ghishlain]

The idea of people helping eachother and waiting on a mob and even resetting it so more people can gain access to the fun and endgame stuff is far more reasonable and noble than this pull early its your mob go for it mentality thats promoted here.
I'm not saying you should wait 5 minutes on a mob but if you know people are running there is no need to be selfish give it another 30 seconds someone else might do the same for you another day.

I will start this by saying I find the amount of information spread and shared with the release of hunts to be astounding. I am happy to see so many players on so many servers co-operating to maximize the amount of seals they can get per hunt.

My point of concern stems from the fact that horde is almost... a policing presence on the servers. Someone pulls early before the set time frame we set? LYNCH HIM/HER (I know this is an extreme, bear with me for a moment).

Go back to Enkrateia's post for a moment.

In general, any monster in the world that is able to be attacked can be attacked at any time. There is no user agreement section that details the proper time to wait before attacking a hunt mark, at this time. That being said, actions determined to be taken with the intent of disrupting the game play of others can be reported as a grief tactic. This disruption applies to the people actually at the hunt mark, and convoluting the "disruption" to apply because not enough people were present for you to get full credit misses the actual impact of the disruption. And because nothing is black and white, this does not mean that pulling the hunt mark will not result in a grief tactics violation. The circumstances that would cause it are rarer, but not impossible. A GM would make that determination after investigating a report on potential grief tactics.

As in several of my posts, as a player, I appreciate the players who can get people to wait a bit to give more people a chance to participate. However, unless the hunt mark is pulled in a manner that a GM finds to be intentionally disruptive, waiting is a social behaviour, not an edict within the rules.

Also, ignore the fact that someone repeatedly doing this and bragging about is clearly griefing too, please.

"Pulling early" is not against the ToS in any way shape or form. Who are we, as the horde, to trample the rights of a few select individuals and ostracize them from the game for playing the game legitimately? We are not the enforcers of this game. We do not make the rules. Yet, you can easily ostracize someone and tarnish their reputation forever with the amount of people in these linkshells by making one simple mistake of "pulling early" by definition of this policing horde.

Is that truly fair to these select individuals?

[Enkrateia]

Hello!

I removed the last few posts about how a linkshell is run and discrimination, since they were veering off topic and personal. I left some posts in the thread; however, let's consider those discussions closed in the forums.

LGM Enkrateia

[Enkrateia]

Also, ignore the fact that someone repeatedly doing this and bragging about is clearly griefing too, please.

That being said, actions determined to be taken with the intent of disrupting the game play of others can be reported as a grief tactic.

This section may apply to your concern.

"Pulling early" is not against the ToS in any way shape or form. Who are we, as the horde, to trample the rights of a few select individuals and ostracize them from the game for playing the game legitimately? We are not the enforcers of this game. We do not make the rules. Yet, you can easily ostracize someone and tarnish their reputation forever with the amount of people in these linkshells by making one simple mistake of "pulling early" by definition of this policing horde.

Is that truly fair to these select individuals?

MMO's are largely social and community based games. While any player can play the game any way they see fit within the rules of the user agreement, if their actions ostracize the rest of the community, they may find the social and community based aspects of the game more difficult to enjoy. GMs only get involved in the violations of the user agreement. We cannot make people want to play with someone they felt has slighted them in any manner.

[Mcshiggs]

Also, not everyone has all day to sit on the forums and troll, so I'm not sure why you would put someone down for having not seen a thread about this topic earlier.

He said people always ask him for resets, and he would always do it, so in my eyes I think the same about all those that ask for resets as I do the one that resets. You say it was him not knowing the rules, ok, he didn't think ahead about how his actions would impact others, ok, he may not have read or understood the ToS, ok, but ignorance of the rules is not an excuse for breaking the rules. What he did was wrong, he deserved to be reported, and he deserves any action that could be taken against him. I didn't put him down for not seeing this on the forums, I let him know that it had been, and he could have used the search function if he was curious if this had been brought up before, I put him down for breaking the rules.

[Ghishlain]

MMO's are largely social and community based games. While any player can play the game any way they see fit within the rules of the user agreement, if their actions ostracize the rest of the community, they may find the social and community based aspects of the game more difficult to enjoy. GMs only get involved in the violations of the user agreement. We cannot make people want to play with someone they felt has slighted them in any manner.

I can accept this, as I feel the same. If you are intentionally building yourself a negative reputation amongst the community, karma will come kicking, and it won't be pleasant, I can assure you.

Expanding on my previous post a bit more, I am concerned about the fact that someone feels resetting a monster is within their right because someone "early pulled". To me, this is a violation of the ToS but an individual or group may feel enpowered to do so anyway because it helps serve "the greater good". I do not feel it is fair for someone to feel they are above the ToS because of this, and I'd rather not see good people get warned / suspended / banned for doing what they feel is right because they have hundreds of people backing them. Two wrongs do not make a right.

... after this train of thought, I certainly don't envy the position the GMs are in thanks to hunts. This is a very tight rope to walk.

[Ashkendor]

I find it strange that we are favouring earlier pullers etc when we have large groups of people that would reset so a larger amount of people can get the chance to enjoy the gameplay. Not once has any reset resultet to my loosing anything its only helped people who are a bit too late. I find strange that we should applaud and give medals to early pullers selfish gamers instead of benefiting the large amount of people so everyone can get help.

I'm guessing you haven't read the thread in its entirety, cause that's been discussed a few times too.

Nobody is applauding early pullers. They annoy pretty much everyone.

... after this train of thought, I certainly don't envy the position the GMs are in thanks to hunts. This is a very tight rope to walk.

It really is. In some cases, there is "what's right" and "what the rules are".

[JTribal]

ignorance of the rules is not an excuse for breaking the rules. What he did was wrong, he deserved to be reported, and he deserves any action that could be taken against him. I didn't put him down for not seeing this on the forums, I let him know that it had been, and he could have used the search function if he was curious if this had been brought up before, I put him down for breaking the rules.

You may not have any sympathy for someone that makes an honest mistake, but I do. I agree he broke the rules, but his intentions were good. It was fairly obvious from the beginning that he wasn't doing it on purpose and didn't realize the negative impact it had on other people. I'm not going to persecute someone for that. Anyways, I'm not going to continue to defend myself, the previous comments were removed for a reason.

[JustPlainLucas]

So the majority comes up with a collaborative, less-stressful way for ANYONE to benefit from the hunt system despite SE's flawed implementation -- thus reducing server-wide frustrations surrounding the hunts -- yet people should rebel against this?

Seriously, can you think of how much more toxic hunts would be if most people doing them weren't working together? Yikes...

I wonder how you came up with the suggestion that we should rebel. I didn't say anything about rebelling. I'm saying that no one is tied down to follow these imaginary rules, so if they come across a mark and no one's there, they can feel obligated to claim it themselves. That is not rebelling.