In regard to the Scholars

[Gor]

Please stop. Just... just stop. You can't deny reality any more than you can change the direction the Earth spins around the sun.

so? he did no healing, 33k is crap which means he was rolling in Cleric the whole time and just rolling dots on everything, furthermore that ain't even the norm. if there is nothing for the SCH to do, they can dps and vice versa. in addition, u dont know if the person swapped specs mid-match because it only shows your current spec at the end of the match. show me a chart where they can pull 130k damage AND 150k+ heals then that's another story. otherwise, feel free to keep hating.

[Vandril]

so? he did no healing, 33k is crap which means he was rolling in Cleric the whole time and just rolling dots on everything, furthermore that ain't even the norm. if there is nothing for the SCH to do, they can dps and vice versa. in addition, u dont know if the person swapped specs mid-match because it only shows your current spec at the end of the match. show me a chart where they can pull 130k damage AND 150k+ heals then that's another story. otherwise, feel free to keep hating.

Yet, assuming there was never a class change, you can't deny that he did more damage than any other DPS or Tank in the screenshot while still doing healing equal to roughly half of the damage that many DPS seem to do in the average match. Once again assuming that there was never a class change, there is no denying that the overall numbers done by Tete Rouge were pretty outrageous if they're the norm for scholars who try to DPS (rather than just a lucky match).

I'm not hating, nor am I calling for a nerf. I'm just pointing out that it's a bit odd, as it is.

[Tinsley]

Please stop. Just... just stop. You can't deny reality any more than you can change the direction the Earth spins around the sun.

you can't take one example (with unconfirmed pure scholar stats) and claim this is proof that scholars are overpowered. You can NOT assume the player was on scholar the entire time and to do so is naive. Those numbers are akin to aoe casters numbers i see regularly. Start posting some more "proof" and maybe people will listen but at the moment you are grasping at straws to try and prove an invalid point. Besides, ONE person, in one game does not make it the norm.


Vandril,

I will give you this however, if and it's a big if, this person was on scholar the entire time then there was serious long term non stop fighting going on and again.. not the norm for Frontlines.

[Vandril]

Vandril,

I will give you this however, if and it's a big if, this person was on scholar the entire time then there was serious long term non stop fighting going on and again.. not the norm for Frontlines.

Personally, I wouldn't know how Scholar damage is, yet, as I don't yet have one, so I'll take your word for it.

But, yes, one screenshot does not reliable proof make. Especially in a game that allows class switching. We'd need video proof from the start to the end of multiple FL matches from numerous different people before we could see if it's a real problem or not. I was just saying that it's not entirely impossible that healer damage isn't overtuned for PvP, either. It would be nice if someone could record some fairly solid evidence one way or the other while playing a DPS-healer.

[jlewiss]

I guess I would say that even if these are accurate they aren't the norm. I'm not gonna claim to be some god level pvper but there is very little time -especially- in wolves den where i have the oppertunity to clerics, dot, bane and go back to healing. If the other team has even half a clue what they are doing this will almost never happen. The best you can hope for is bio swiftcast bio 2 and surecast misama, which right there takes out 2 of your defensive cooldowns plus an aether stack for bane.
I also have a hard time believing that person in FL was dpsing as sch the whole time simply because despite whether your healing or dpsing all the enemy sees is a healer and your gonna get ganged up on.

[monkeytheman]

I have kited enemies across the map even without Eos. its nothing not even complicated and there is nothing op about that whatsoever and i don't even heal for that much.

Yup, totally not broken to kite that many people while not healing for much. You are SO right. /sarcasm
Every post I've read of your's Gor has just been you contradicting yourself. You claim Scholar isn't OP and then describe how you kite parties across the ENTIRE MAP (exaggeration I would hope) while in tank gear, or just using adloquium occasionally. Does Scholar need to be nerfed to the ground? No. Do they need to be toned down? Hell yes. To be honest, I don't know exactly what should be done....personally, I'd start with changing galvanize for PVP ONLY. Obviously we don't want to see any change ruin them in PVE, which despite how any super hardcore PVPer feels.....mmo's are pretty much built for PVE first. It is the majority of the player-base's focus after all. They already did a PVP only change with the stun durations, so it wouldn't be hard to implement any other things PVP specific.

[blowfin]

I totally get what you're saying, SCH antics aren't as strong as what is being seen, but the thing is to the new (PvP) player it's one of those walls that they cannot climb over. I've been doing pvp since the SCH/SMN nerfs (which were totally justified IMO) I know how to deal with SCHs/WHMs as a melee, newer players, however, don't have a clue what to do against SCHs/WHMs which make teams stacking healers just even more stronger than intended. One SCH with six lustrates was enough but four-five of them? It makes it nearly impossible to make a dent into someone. I feel that solo SCH/WHM isn't a big deal but there has to be something done about stacking healers.

My thoughts exactly, it's a cheese tactic, and unfortunately it's generally used by more experienced groups, which magnifies the issue. The point of it being really hard for new players to get into PvP is particularly salient, and probably SE's first concern. Stacked healers can also make for an incredibly boring and tedious match, something that's not healthy for PvP in general. Of course, that's generally lost on the people who are chasing the top of the table.

[Gor]

Every post I've read of your's Gor has just been you contradicting yourself. You claim Scholar isn't OP and then describe how you kite parties across the ENTIRE MAP (exaggeration I would hope) while in tank gear, or just using adloquium occasionally. Does Scholar need to be nerfed to the ground? No. Do they need to be toned down? Hell yes.

I never said the ENTIRE map; YOU said that. Good job putting words in my mouth tho. Across the map as in from one flag to the other or from one flag to up top. And no I am not contradicting myself. There is nothing op about being able to kite enemies from one flag to the other. I've done it in WoW on a Disc Priest and I can do it here in FFXIV on a SCH. Its all about being diminishing returned out, being conservative about my spells, watching what my enemies are casting and the dots they put on me, knowing what dots I should cleanse and which ones to leave up, watching my cool downs and juking until I can get them to my teammates who deal with them or running into a PLD along the way who Covers/Testudos me. Nothing op about that whatsoever.

[monkeytheman]

"I never said the ENTIRE map; YOU said that."
Hi, I am a message that you posted earlier in the thread, love me.

I have kited enemies across the map even without Eos. its nothing not even complicated and there is nothing op about that whatsoever and i don't even heal for that much.

I guess I am assuming that "across the map" would entail an exaggeration of across the entire map.

Like I said, I read some of your posts....found this one the funniest contradiction (of the ones i read anyways....guessing there are more like it). If you, without eos and no really healing much (which would probably just mean using adlo "occasionally"), are able to kite multiple enemies (I remember another post you made about kiting groups....cant find it) without dying from one point to another (which is a rather long distance all things considered), that is not balance. Sure, the people chasing you could not have a keyboard or controller with functioning keys and they are just trying to auto attack you to death....but people that are attacking you should actually put some sort of dent in you. When you focus fire a lone scholar, and they don't even come close to dying, that's not okay.....hell, NO class should be able to do that. The scholar doesn't even have to be very good to pull it off. Please don't get me wrong here, I don't want to see healers die instantly. I want to see a focus-fired scholar die in less than what feels like 3 business days. Clearly a highly organized group will take them down, but it still takes a long damn time...too long really. Nerfing the pet isn't the right way to go about it either. Maybe taking away the double potency shield on crit from galvanize....but that could be too harsh. The way i see it scholar is a hard class to balance for PVP.

[Gor]

look bro, i'm not going to get into a debate of words with you. i never said entire. you assumed i meant from Manor to Markets or from Storm Post to Adder Post. from one flag to the other and from a flag to up top is also across the map, imply that i went a lengthy distance, or you could even look at it as going from down to up or from up to down ... maybe even diagonally if it makes you so happy. or even put your map on a cd player and watch it spin around. in fact, i may just get bored one game and try to kite enemy players across the ENTIRE map. so unless you're going to arrest me, am i free to go grammar cop?