So resetting's against the rules now?

[ispano]

You're being way too literal.

You seemed to say that something can't be called "griefing" unless there's a rule in place to say it is. I'm saying that's a load of crap.

Yet i'm not. If the person takes the cashier in my example, are they griefing you? You were just standing there, never went up to the cashier or anything. Same thing with the mob, you were standing around and not claiming it. No griefing is involved. The fault lies with you and you alone for waiting.

[ispano]

YES YES YES YES. This is ALL I'm saying, but people seem so resistant to the idea of being nice. It's baffling.

Is it though? Ever think that maybe people are resistant to you basically calling them inconsiderate and such things? Being nice is subjective. For me, waiting to encourage a mob that the server cannot normally handle, just for a B rank, is inconsiderate of both the person waiting and the people expecting to get there and get credit.

[Thayos]

You also act like I owe something to these big hordes of people, the truth is I refuse to join hunt shells.

I read your whole post, and I'm sorry that happened to you. But why would you want to cause anguish to people who had nothing to do with the folks who griefed you? I don't think anyone wins when people start lashing out at others, especially in an MMO where so many fun-seeking people get caught in the crossfire.

Yet i'm not. If the person takes the cashier in my example, are they griefing you? You were just standing there, never went up to the cashier or anything.

What? You think if someone cuts in front of you in a line you're clearly in, then it's your fault for not standing close enough to the person in front of you? Isn't that kind of blaming the victim? Or am I grossly misunderstanding the point you're trying to make?

Ever think that maybe people are resistant to you basically calling them inconsiderate and such things?

I haven't singled out any one person for being inconsiderate... there are only certain people arguing with my simple request.

I think it is ridiculous to wait for 100 people to gang up on a B rank.

I agree, and the vast majority of people in my hunt linkshells also don't care about missing B ranks. B ranks are pretty much considered fair game... people obviously wait when they can, but if one gets pulled early, people basically shrug and move on. It's just not always obvious, because all it takes is two people to start yelling in /shout to make things look crazy.

[Mcshiggs]

As in several of my posts, as a player, I appreciate the players who can get people to wait a bit to give more people a chance to participate.

I think it is ridiculous to wait for 100 people to gang up on a B rank. I know many people that are being waitied on for As and S's were standing in town, or crafting or something, and not out actually hunting, I know many times an S rank spawned and folks dropped out of dungeon groups so they could go kill it, I know that none of that stuff is against the rules, but if you are the type of player that does any of that, or supports it by sitting around waiting on them, then you wouldn't be the type of person I would want to group with.

I read your whole post, and I'm sorry that happened to you. But why would you want to cause anguish to people who had nothing to do with the folks who griefed you?

The people in the hunt shells benefit from those that did grief me, if you read the entire post you would see that I said you can tell a lot about people by the people they choose to be around, you choose to be parts of those shells, and to benefit from it when they grief others, so I don't think any more of you than I do those that do the griefing. You and I also have very different definitions of anguish, I don't consider missing one mark anguish, especially if you are in one of those groups that kills nonstop for hours. It's not that I am being mean to the folks that aren't there if I do pull a mark, it's I owe no loyalty to them. If I pull before 200 show up, I get more credit, if I wait, I get less, by saying I am greifing them, is like saying their rewards are more important than mine.

[ispano]

What? You think if someone cuts in front of you in a line you're clearly in, then it's your fault for not standing close enough to the person in front of you? Isn't that kind of blaming the victim? Or am I grossly misunderstanding the point you're trying to make?

I'm telling you that the line analogy doesn't fit. When you sit near a Hunt Mark, not engaged, there is no line. You're just standing there, you're not waiting for someone to finish. The analogy I supplied fits much better. Again, there is no line. The unengaged hunt mob is a cashier who has no current customer and isn't doing anything.

I haven't singled out any one person for being inconsiderate... there are only certain people arguing with my simple request.

By saying you feel people should be considerate and wait for others, means you feel that people who don't and just charge in are inconsiderate.

[Thayos]

As in several of my posts, as a player, I appreciate the players who can get people to wait a bit to give more people a chance to participate. However, unless the hunt mark is pulled in a manner that a GM finds to be intentionally disruptive, waiting is a social behaviour, not an edict within the rules.

Also, to the lurking GM, thanks for your most recent post. I hope you understand that I'm not trying to say that early pulling is against the rules, because it's not. But I'm glad to see that you, as a player, seem to understand the importance of social norms as well as actual rules.

I'm telling you that the line analogy doesn't fit.

A WOOOOOSH may be in order.... but I'm hopeful that you really do understand what I'm saying, and you're just playing devil's advocate for the sake of forum madness.

means you feel that people who don't and just charge in are inconsiderate.

It's situational, but yes, this is often the case.

[ispano]

A WOOOOOSH may be in order.... but I'm hopeful that you really do understand what I'm saying, and you're just playing devil's advocate for the sake of forum madness.

No, i'm saying your analogy is flat out wrong and does not fit. I understand it, and I understand it does not fit in the slightest. So, ask yourself this. What's the difference between these two?

A. Customer A is standing in line behind Customer C at the checkout. Customer B notices there's some space and cuts in front of Customer A.

B. Customer A is standing near a checkout line that has no current customers. Customer A is not checking out, but waiting. Customer B sees the checkout is currently free and uses it.

A is what you've been trying to say, and does not match with what happens in game, which is why this line

Really? If you were waiting in line at the grocery store and someone cut in front of you, that's not against the law, but I'm pretty sure it's griefing. I could come up with endless examples to show the flaw in your logic.

Does not apply in the slightest. There was no cutting in line. You never engaged the mob. You waited of your own discretion and the other player saw the unclaimed mark and took the opportunity to claim it. It's not griefing.

It's situational, but yes, this is often the case.

And then my point stands, people have a problem with you calling them inconsiderate, even if you do not do so directly. Especially when they're just playing the system the way it was intended to be. You waited, they chose not to. That's all there is to it.

[Thayos]

As long as your point stands, so will mine. Funny how things balance out like that.

No, i'm saying your analogy is flat out wrong and does not fit.

OK, it's official... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Giantbane]

If I pull before 200 show up, I get more credit, if I wait, I get less, by saying I am greifing them, is like saying their rewards are more important than mine.

When the content first came out, I was hunting with small groups and wouldn't wait too long for fear of not getting credit.

Since then, I have found it much more enjoyable to join the bigger LSs and participate as part of a much larger group as long as people are being polite about the kills and sharing with others. As long as everyone is in a group they all get credit. By sharing, you're not only helping others by getting them credit, but you encourage them to share kills they find with you.

And getting in a group is easy, usually there's a few that are up on PF or if you're solo and in zone with a hunt mob, it's very easy to either shout for others to invite you or form your own party with others who are shouting for invites. 8 people in group should make getting credit easy as long as everyone can hit the monster once or twice. Even better with a tank or healer in your group spamming high threat moves.

But play as you like if you feel like you'll enjoy that better I guess.

[Mcshiggs]

Yay for big hunt shells.

Like I have said many times, the people that started some of the hunt shells were people I didn't like and were on my blacklist even before the hunts, I choose not to be a part of those groups, and I am ok with the fact that it will take me longer to get marks and what not. If I see a group gathered around a mark, I don't pull those, I wait because I or the folks in my group didn't find it, now if I find a mark, or someone in my group does, I pull when we have enough to kill it, I will shout in zone, and if there is room I will invite those that ask for invites or will take a random invite if I am solo. I'm just not a fan of the huge horde, and choose not to be a part of it and not to support it, I don't think there is anything malicious with it, and I am ok with not getting all the perks that comes along with it, it's just how I choose to play.