So resetting's against the rules now?

[Mcshiggs]

Rather than arguing about which type of griefing has the moral high ground, people should just respect each other and be considerate. Don't be selfish, and most of this problem solves itself.

I'm still waiting to see a GM say that not waiting for the sheep mob to zerg the mark is griefing. It is only griefing in the minds of people like you, not in the ToS, you know the rules you agree to when you start playing.

[Thayos]

I'm still waiting to see a GM say that not waiting for the sheep mob to zerg the mark is griefing

Really? If you were waiting in line at the grocery store and someone cut in front of you, that's not against the law, but I'm pretty sure it's griefing. I could come up with endless examples to show the flaw in your logic.

Do you really need something to be an official rule to make it right or wrong? (Of course not... that's kind of a loaded question.)

Point is, you shouldn't need a written rule to prevent you from being inconsiderate... it's not hard to do (or know) what's right.

[ispano]

Really? If you were waiting in line at the grocery store and someone cut in front of you, that's not against the law, but I'm pretty sure it's griefing. I could come up with endless examples to show the flaw in your logic.

Do you really need something to be an official rule to make it right or wrong?

Except it's different here. An unclaimed mob, is just that unclaimed. You standing there waiting gives you no rights to that mob. If someone else comes in and starts fighting, that's your loss.

[Thayos]

Except it's different here. An unclaimed mob, is just that unclaimed. You standing there waiting gives you no rights to that mob. If someone else comes in and starts fighting, that's your loss.

Right... just like at the grocery store, if there's a spot right in front of you, someone could step in and fill it. Your loss.

It's still a d*** move.

I'm not arguing that people don't have rights to unclaimed mobs. I'm just saying that we're arguing about a problem we're creating for ourselves by not being more considerate toward others.

[ispano]

Right... just like at the grocery store, if there's a spot right in front of you, someone could step in and fill it. Your loss.

Still not the same. The proper comparison would not be the line. It would be there's an empty cashier waiting for a customer, you see it but are standing away and waiting for a family member to arrive. Someone else comes in, sees the cashier available and jumps in. You waited, your loss.

[Thayos]

Still not the same.

You're being way too literal.

You seemed to say that something can't be called "griefing" unless there's a rule in place to say it is. I'm saying that's a load of crap.

[Ashkendor]

Rather than arguing about which type of griefing has the moral high ground, people should just respect each other and be considerate. Don't be selfish, and most of this problem solves itself.

There is no moral high ground to argue about because one situation (attacking an unengaged mob in the field) is clearly not griefing, while the other situation (deliberately resetting the fight on a mob that's already engaged) is. It's apples and oranges. Is it nice for people to wait? Absolutely. Are they obligated to do so? Absolutely not. Seriously, sometimes you don't want to see a mob zerged down in 30 seconds. Sometimes it's fun for players to try to tackle a B rank or even an A rank with a smaller party just to see if they're up to the challenge. There's nothing wrong about that behavior. The mobs will respawn again in an hour or in 3-5 hours.

Even if there *was* moral high ground, it would be 100% irrelevant. A GM has already made that clear.

I'm still thinking that Allied Seals vending machine in town is a perfectly viable idea, cause that seems to be how a lot of people treat the hunt system anyway. It's not a hunt so much as it is a server-wide seek and destroy monopolized by the zerg horde. God help you if you find something and choose not to call the horde, because they will simply try to wrest it away from you. How is that considerate and respectful?

[Thayos]

God help you if you find something and choose not to call the horde, because they will simply try to wrest it away from you. Does that not strike you as selfish behavior in and of itself?

Actually, this is an interesting concept... because a lot of people in this thread seem to feel that it's "soloers against the horde," when in reality, most of the "early pulls" aren't from soloers, but people in the horde who are abusing intel from their linkshells.

Basically, the horde isn't out to get you. This is just a handful of people who get their rocks off by standing on others to get ahead. The horde is just as sick of them as you are.

Is it nice for people to wait? Absolutely. Are they obligated to do so? Absolutely not.

YES YES YES YES. This is ALL I'm saying, but people seem so resistant to the idea of being nice. It's baffling.

Seriously, sometimes you don't want to see a mob zerged down in 30 seconds. Sometimes it's fun for players to try to tackle a B rank or even an A rank with a smaller party just to see if they're up to the challenge. There's nothing wrong about that behavior.

YES YES YES YES!!!! I agree! I even said this very thing like... three posts ago!

I honestly don't understand where this general reluctance to play nice comes from, even among people who -- if I only read parts of their posts -- would seem to want to advocate playing nice.

I also don't understand the line of thinking that if there's no rule against something, it can't possibly be bad, and therefore we should just act like it's fine... like cutting in line, or laughing at a crippled person, or taking the last piece of birthday cake at the office when you know others haven't eaten yet... all things that don't break any rules whatsoever, yet would be considered by most as "wrong."

[Enkrateia]

I'm still waiting to see a GM say that not waiting for the sheep mob to zerg the mark is griefing. It is only griefing in the minds of people like you, not in the ToS, you know the rules you agree to when you start playing.

In general, any monster in the world that is able to be attacked can be attacked at any time. There is no user agreement section that details the proper time to wait before attacking a hunt mark, at this time. That being said, actions determined to be taken with the intent of disrupting the game play of others can be reported as a grief tactic. This disruption applies to the people actually at the hunt mark, and convoluting the "disruption" to apply because not enough people were present for you to get full credit misses the actual impact of the disruption. And because nothing is black and white, this does not mean that pulling the hunt mark will not result in a grief tactics violation. The circumstances that would cause it are rarer, but not impossible. A GM would make that determination after investigating a report on potential grief tactics.

As in several of my posts, as a player, I appreciate the players who can get people to wait a bit to give more people a chance to participate. However, unless the hunt mark is pulled in a manner that a GM finds to be intentionally disruptive, waiting is a social behaviour, not an edict within the rules.

[Mcshiggs]

Point is, you shouldn't need a written rule to prevent you from being inconsiderate... it's not hard to do (or know) what's right.

You also act like I owe something to these big hordes of people, the truth is I refuse to join hunt shells. One of the first made on my server was made by a person I already had on my blacklist, because he is just an outright prick. There are a few on the server now, but still they all communicate with each other, in the beginning there were people using the radar app, I didn't want to be a part of grouping with those types of people, and benefiting from cheaters, I believe you can tell a lot about people by the ones they choose to be around. Since I wasn't part of the horde, I can't tell you how many times I had found marks, called out to my FC, other shells, and friends to make my own group, only to have it reset by the sheep mob, I can't tell you, but the GMs can because everyone time it was reported. I owe nothing to horde of d-bags, they have griefed me numerous times in the past, they don't send me tells telling me where marks are, so why should my thought process even include helping these people out?