Of PvP & Protect Spell

[Vandril]

If it's true that the Defense stats don't function in FL, then PLD really do have mega-burst damage.

Because there isn't a single Melee around (that I've met on the field) that can take out my (Sword Oath - full STR accessories) PLD 1v1 in FL when we both have full CDs, unless they LB.

They seem to take so much more damage than I do. Are we certain that the defenses don't function in at least FL?

It would be such a pain to try to actually conduct a test for this in a way where there's no uncontrolled variables skewing the data...

Here is a little explanation of it. While it is not straight from Square Enix, it is written on a wiki...

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Morale

"Morale is an attribute that affects the amount of damage you take from enemy players and the amount of damage you deal to enemy players in PvP. The attribute only comes into play in level 50 PvP matches, where it replaces Defense and Magic Defense in influencing the damage you receive."

I'm not sure if you meant it this way, or if you were just proving that about WD, but I don't believe this means it also replaces the Defenses in FL. What makes me doubt it is that this description was written before FL was released, or even announced with any sort of detail beyond the name and that it'd be a form of PvP. It may or may not be true that Defenses do nothing in FL, but I don't think we can safely try to use this quote as evidence.

[Divinemight]

If it's true that the Defense stats don't function in FL, then PLD really do have mega-burst damage.

Because there isn't a single Melee around (that I've met on the field) that can take out my (Sword Oath - full STR accessories) PLD 1v1 in FL when we both have full CDs, unless they LB.

They seem to take so much more damage than I do. Are we certain that the defenses don't function in at least FL?

It would be such a pain to try to actually conduct a test this in a way where there's no more than one controlled variable...

It is confirmed. There is an ongoing discussion in JP PvP fourm atm. Any defense increase related actions are useless.

[Logo]

It is confirmed. There is an ongoing discussion in JP PvP fourm atm. Any defense increase related actions are useless.

Does this mean that "Blood for Blood" doesnt increase damage taken by 25% then also?

[Divinemight]

Does this mean that "Blood for Blood" doesnt increase damage taken by 25% then also?

Damage reduction still works, good example is that Paladin can use Sentinel to reduce a 5k damamge Brave under 3k. It has nothing to do with the defense value. In this case, if Blood for Blood is let you receive extra incoming damamge, it is likely that will function as tooltip described.

[Fainto]

Does this mean that "Blood for Blood" doesnt increase damage taken by 25% then also?

No, but it seems like you're missing the nuance in the wording here. Spells and abilities that say "damage taken" will still work the exact same way they do in PvE.

Some examples of spells that do work (Damage Taken):

• Blood for Blood
• Vengeance
• Rampart
• Sentinel

Some examples of spells that don't work (Physical or Magical Defense):

• Protect
• Foresight
• Fey Covenant

As for raising the magic defense of Dragoons, that is mostly a PvE change... The issue there is that DRG armour has much lower magic defense than everyone else on their gear and are therefore more likely to die to unavoidable aoe magic damage (such as the primal ultimates and megaflare in T9).

[Logo]

No, but it seems like you're missing the nuance in the wording here. Spells and abilities that say "damage taken" will still work the exact same way they do in PvE.

Some examples of spells that do work (Damage Taken):

• Blood for Blood
• Vengeance
• Rampart
• Sentinel

Some examples of spells that don't work (Physical or Magical Defense):

• Protect
• Foresight
• Fey Covenant

Gotcha! makes sense now!

[Vandril]

Paladin is a counter class to melee. DEF is eliminated, thus def increasing skills become obsolete other than to act as a buff filter. Percent reduc skills like sentinel still have effect as they reduce damage by a flat out %. This makes paladins very strong in 1 on 1.

This is true. In most 1v1 fights, I am taking an average of about 25% (totally guestimated) less damage than my enemy solely due to CDs, now that I think about it. And that would explain the gap I'm seeing.

Honestly, I don't know how you people can pvp and not notice these things. Think of the logistics of what would happen if def was enabled. Ever notice how dungeon mobs can 1/2 shot most classes, but the tank classes can take multiple of them on without needing cooldowns? Because their def/mdef is at least double. IF def was enabled tanks would be sooo hard to kill in comparison with regular classes, much like in pve. In fl/wd they are sturdier due to their defensive cooldowns and larger HP pool. But they still die pretty quickly too.

Well, in my case, I didn't notice because I go out of my way to hit anything except tanks. I always assumed Def/MDef worked in FL since Morale wasn't in effect, so I avoided hitting tanks if there was any other target nearby. And I don't much pay attention to the numbers my abilities deal in damage. I focus mainly on my enemy's health bar and go by percentages, when I'm trying to determine my damage. I could turn my floating combat text off and not notice the difference.

All in all, this revelation won't change much in how I play Frontlines. At most, it'll make me not bother using Protect after dying, unless I think it'll be worth using to soak a dispel. Tanks are still more tanky, DPS still do more damage, and Healers are still going to die by my Shield Bash Spa-er, I mean hand. So, yeah, not much has changed.

[Divinemight]

Update on this issue. It is confirmed that defense values does not work in the Frontline is working as intended:

こんばんは。

フロントラインでは、ウルヴズジェイル同様に物理防御力／魔法防御力は無効にしており、
その前提でバトルのバランスも調整しています。

そのためフォーサイトやプロテスのような物理防御力をのばすアクションも効果はありません。

The god damn morale has ruined a lot of thing. They are balance the Frontline based on the framework of Wolf Den where defense values doesnt work because of morale. Protect, Foresight, and Fey Covenant doesnt work because of the stupid Morale?

[Gor]

Update on this issue. It is confirmed that defense values does not work in the Frontline is working as intended:



The god damn morale has ruined a lot of thing. They are balance the Frontline based on the framework of Wolf Den where defense values doesnt work because of morale. Protect, Foresight, and Fey Covenant doesnt work because of the stupid Morale?

Lame. Then I retract my earlier statement ... its still useful tho for buff munchers and I'll still cast it on my party members. Still no reason not to tho. Altho it does kind of suck, players have learned to adapt to the minus morale environment even if the Protect icon is just a placebo