Paladin idea for expansion

[Myrhn]

Instead of changing pld i would rather see a new class/job that specialize in 2-handed weapons.

[RegnumMagik]

Instead of changing pld i would rather see a new class/job that specialize in 2-handed weapons.

Why not both?

[Jeannes]

I always suspected paladin to have some healing ability at least like the paladin job master did, something along the lines of convalescence but self healing.
Sword oath doesn't really help that much for dps, but better damage to be on par with war.

[Nahara]

It now increases the damage you receive (compared to the baseline with no oath active) but also greatly increases the damage you output.

No.

Look, I get the idea of wanting to be able to deal a bit of damage when you're not the main tank, but Sword Oath as is does that already without crippling your ability to tank. Sure, you can't tank as well as a Paladin in Shield Oath, but at least you're not gonna be turned into paste in the emergency situation you might need to. If you want the Gladiator to be able to be a DPS, it needs to be a new job entirely with ability tweaks made at the class level, instead of trying to hap-hazardly bolt a DPS mechanic onto a dedicated tank.

[Donjo]

This would be a severe unbalance, particularly to the tanking classes.

As things stand now, here's how they tend to rank in situations where an 8 person party has both a PLD and a WAR.

Defense

In general, a PLD is best for fights where there is a high level of consistent damage. This is due to longer, more powerful cooldowns and the Shield providing free mitigation irrespective of the Parry stat.
In general, a WAR is best for fights where there is spike damage at predictable intervals. This is due to Inner Beast, which can be saved for every spike provided there's a sufficient length of time between them.

Conclusion: Throw a WAR at Twintania and other similar fights. Throw PLDs at tough fights where no tank swapping is necessary(except for T8, where WAR MT damage helps). Throw both at everything anyway

Offense

In general, a WAR will do more damage than a PLD while they are main tanking something. This is mostly because of Unchained giving the ability to negate Defiance's damage penalty at pretty good intervals.
In general, a PLD will do more damage than a WAR while they are off tanking something. This is pretty much guaranteed if an MT WAR is keeping Storm's Eye up. This is because a Sword Oath increases a PLD's DPS beyond removing the penalty from Shield Oath and their possession of two of the most powerful off GCD attacks(potency wise) in the entire game on such short cooldowns.

Conclusion: If damage matters so much that you need even your Tanks to optimize for it, it's best to go WAR MT and PLD OT.

Hate Generation

In general, a PLD has a higher consistent level of hate generation than a WAR in long battles, but lower burst generation.
In general, a WAR has better burst threat than PLD, but somewhat lower levels otherwise due to the expectation that Maim and at least one Storm is to be kept up at all times.

Conclusion: An equally geared pair of tanks both trying to produce maximum threat will likely switch off at semi-regular intervals throughout a longer battle.

AOE Tanking

A WAR is better at holding hate against multiple enemies than a PLD.
A PLD is better at holding hate against a single target than a WAR.

Conclusion: It's best to send a WAR after large groups of adds while the PLD keeps the main boss busy.

-----

So, the main thing here is to note that each of the jobs has their things that they're best at. The significant detail to note, however, is that despite the "PLD is best at this" and "WAR is best at that", both jobs can run off and do pretty much anything the other job is considered to be better at and still succeed. What does this mean? It means that there's a good level of balance between them. This is a good thing.

This proposal to make Sword Oath even more powerful breaks the balance in the Offense section. Whereas most parties of 8 would like there to be both a PLD and WAR present, the following would occur instead of a PLD OT became even more powerful. If we imagine fights where the following is true:

A WAR is the better MT: No change.
A PLD is the better MT: Drop the WAR and get another PLD.
It doesn't matter what Tanks we have: Get two PLD's.

In short, this may recreate the 2.0 situation in which people wanted PLD's far more than they wanted WAR's, and that is bad.

[UBERHAXED]

Gibberish

In no situation will a good paladin ever do more damage or generate more hate than a good warrior. I hope that was a joke (albeit a bad one). Warrior does more damage (uh... due to maim... which should be up 100% of the time) and certainly does higher single target and multiple target enmity generation. And this was before taking into account the 2.1 buffs. This was the same situation at launch.

[Renault]

a lot of time and effort that quite frankly could be better spent designing new classes.

Instead I think SE would be more likely to create a whole new 2-handed weapon type, either for GLA/PLD itself (as in, great swords), or else have it as a whole new class, which seems to be the popular choice.

Why design a new class when the current one is in need of fixing? While I see your point, I hope you won't deny that PLD is in need of an update, specifically in the areas of play style and damage.

[Exstal]

In no situation will a good paladin ever do more damage or generate more hate than a good warrior. I hope that was a joke (albeit a bad one). Warrior does more damage (uh... due to maim... which should be up 100% of the time) and certainly does higher single target and multiple target enmity generation. And this was before taking into account the 2.1 buffs. This was the same situation at launch.

This has been proven false. Stop living in 2.0.

[abzoluut]

I think all jobs will get huge changes. We currently have a class -> job system. It does not work. The one class that can branch out in two jobs already has problems: shared attributes.

If SE is smart, they will dump this 1.0 remnant system and just make jobs with job specific abilities which are much more easy to add/balance.

I have good hopes since Yoshi himself said that he acknowledges the problems with the current system and might even change the whole system.

Btw OP, WARs did not get a "massive" buff, they were just broken. Just one example: IB would heal you for 200hp on a lvl 10 mob, but also for 200hp in Coil. Long story short: rather than fix the content (way more work), they fixed WAR.

[Dano]

this should be in the tank role forums